Get Ready to Have a Happy Day: Judge Dennis Prince Talks to Writer-Director Don Coscarelli About a Film Not Called "Phantasm."

Judge Dennis Prince

July 26th, 2005

Call it a blessing or a bane, but whenever the name of Don Coscarelli is mentioned most folks will ask, "Hey! Is there going to be another Phantasm movie?" The longtime writer-director-cinematographer always seems ready and willing to discuss the unexpected cult phenomenon that has defined him, for better or worse, as a horror filmmaker. Admittedly, Coscarelli prefers the genre but within him lies another dimension that isn't accessed via a gleaming spacegate to infinity or discovered behind the last door on the ward at a Texas retirement home: The guy's got heart.

Prior to becoming the Phantasm phenom and being recognized as one of the early forebears of 1980s "splatter films," Coscarelli simply wanted to make thoughtful-yet-fun films that explored some of the trials and triumphs of growing up. Not the sort of guy to succumb to sophomoric dirty talk or blatant boob-fests, Coscarelli instead chose to get inside youngsters' minds to help sort out the goofy and sometimes challenging notions that each of us has grappled with at one time or another. In just his second feature film, Kenny & Co., Coscarelli chose to tag along with a few suburban kids to figure out what makes them tick and why seemingly aimless "goofing around" could be the sort of pastime that all adults wish they never had to live without.

Thanks to Anchor Bay Entertainment and the usual active involvement of Coscarelli himself, Kenny & Co. has found its way to DVD. Some would call it a part of Coscarelli's learning curve, others might consider it a precursor to Phantasm, but most will see that it's a fun picture and one that remains near and dear to Coscarelli's heart. To coincide with the release, DVD Verdict's Judge Dennis Prince talked with the now-iconic writer-director about the film, how its seventies sensibility compares to today's youth, and how his own youthful experiences can be found sprinkled throughout. And, yes, we talked about Phantasm too, especially a new project that's in the works.

Judge Dennis Prince: First, let me say that I've just screened Kenny & Co. and found it to be a genuinely charming film -- I hope you won't mind the use of the term "charming."

Don Coscarelli: No, that's really nice to hear and nice of you to say. I really like the film and I'm glad you'd describe it that way. Y'know, it was from such a long time ago and it's great to see it on DVD now. It's great how Anchor Bay did such a nice job with it. They got ahold of about 20 films from Fox and Kenny & Co. happened to be one of them. The film was made under very crude circumstances, and after Fox pretty much shelved it for so long I wasn't sure if it would ever be seen as I had hoped or intended. I hadn't watched so intently until we did this DVD, and I had forgotten much of what wound up in the final film. It was a lot of fun putting this thing together.

DP: It's interesting to see how the film stands the test of time. I saw how it thoroughly entertained my 8- and 14-year-old sons who screened it along with me. They were honestly captivated by it. I think they were fascinated to see the things these kids did to entertain themselves without a video game deck anywhere in sight.

DC: Oh, it's true. Its funny you bring that up. As I was watching the film again, that was one of things that surprised me most; to recall how different the lifestyle was then.

DP: Much of the time we saw the kids laying on the lawn, chatting and watching the clouds go by.

DC: (laughs) It's weird that you even mention that. A big part of my life back then was sitting on the lawn waiting for something to happen. Hopefully a friend would come over and we'd go do something or get into some sort of mischief maybe. And, if no one did come over, well, then I'd just spend the day sitting on the lawn and that was okay, too. Thank you for noticing that about the film.

DP: During the commentary track you indicated how you drew upon many of your own childhood experiences in setting the events for Kenny & Co., but do you find your actual personality was likewise reflected in Kenny?

DC: I think that's certainly true. When I was a boy I was somewhat timid and would kind of spend my time watching what was going on with the other kids and the sorts of things they got into. I had a good friend, though, who was always eager to mix it up with parents or other kids and get into all sorts of stuff. He was very much like the character of Doug played by Michael Baldwin in the film; he was such a smartass to parents that I would always look forward to getting together with him.

DP: And Michael, of course, was exactly that sort of kid?

DC: Oh, yeah. Michael was. Michael was a very special kid. He was great and he could be real irritating, not just to other kids but to us on the film, too. He never had any reservations about telling us that what we were doing would be wrong for the film and he'd tell us "oh, that's so uncool" if there was something in the script he didn't like. He was great.

DP: You've said you're becoming farther removed from confidently recounting the details of your youth, yet you also indicated you enjoyed a wonderful childhood. Do you think your films will serve as a sort of reminder or time capsule of those unfettered days gone by?

DC: [My childhood] was great. Of course, there were always some aspects that you don't recall when you weren't always so happy with things or people and, as I've gotten older, I find that other people can be difficult to deal with, whether it's family or associates or whatever. When I was a kid, though, I remember this certain level of freedom that I enjoyed, able to do so many things on a whim and without always having a parent along. I feel so bad for kids these days and even for my own son when he was younger because anymore kids can't get together unless there's a scheduled "play date," and parents are always right there everywhere they go because we've become so paranoid about our kids getting hurt or picked up by a pervert or something, and we're likely blowing that all out of proportion. I think this all really impacts their youth and maybe makes them less able to enjoy their young lives to a certain degree. Of course, there are those other parents I know who aren't as protective and who let their kids run free. Nowadays, many are quick to judge saying, "oh, those parents are so irresponsible," yet somehow, their kids manage to survive just fine, just like we used to.

DP: The music in Kenny & Co. is a pleasant yet nondescript flow of '70s-like arrangements, but there are no commercially recorded and released songs from the era. Was that for reasons of avoiding the purchase of rights or to keep the picture sort of era-independent, or both?

DC: It was a function of money, really. I was really heavily into Steely Dan, though, when I was making the film and I had cut a couple of their songs into the film -- I think "Bodhisattva" and then "Your Gold Teeth" for the ending. Ultimately, I couldn't afford to have them included so I cut them and had Fred Myrow add to the score. And, yeah, I'm happy with how it worked looking at it now. If we had used definitive '70s songs in the soundtrack I could imagine it might really sink the film into being just another period piece.

DP: Another timeless picture of yours is, certainly, Phantasm. Outside of Jody's bell-bottomed suit pants and fat tie, the picture seems as if it could have been produced today. Were you conscious of keeping the costumes, sets, and score relatively nondescript to ensure an enduring appeal?

DC: Then, no. That was by luck. But, now absolutely! I really try to avoid having defining items or situations in a picture today. In fact, I was having an argument with editor on new project I'm working on because there's a moment when the actress mentions her "cell phone." You know, twenty years from now, people won't use term "cell phone" and it will really stick out, that terminology. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to sway him and it stayed. In the later Phantasm films I really watched for these sorts of things because I repeatedly got burned by folks over that bell-bottom scene. It's only one scene in the picture but it really gets noticed.

DP: It seems much of your visual vocabulary that fans have come to know and love as seen in Phantasm was already present in Kenny & Co. -- the low-angle roadway shots, the over-the-shoulder hallway setups, and the quick cutting for scare impact. Was this a style you concocted during Kenny & Co. or had you developed it even earlier on?

DC: Actually, I think it developed during Kenny & Co. I made Jim, the World's Greatest with a friend who co-produced it with me, but on Kenny & Co. I got to be more creative and was the official cinematographer. I was experimenting with the style and I guess I ultimately developed my own personal way of telling a story. It's interesting you noticed the similarities in the filming style because I don't know that I was really conscious of it at the time. I guess I'll need to go back to find out how many others similarities there are between the two films.

DP: It's great to see the film finally hit DVD since so many fans have been aware of it all the way back to 1979 when Phantasm was featured on the cover of issue #2 of Fangoria magazine.

DC: Ah, that's right. We got on the cover of Fangoria way back then, didn't we? Yeah, it's good to see have the DVD now since the only other way to have seen the film was on VHS, usually in the form of fan-made copies of HBO broadcasts that were pretty weak and grainy I understand.

DP: I can't imagine you'd have ever conceived that Kenny & Co. would become such sought-after "booty" peddled by video pirates, huh?

DC: (laughs) Exactly!

DP: Without a doubt, Phantasm is to be recognized as being among the handful of pictures that incited the "gore" or "splatter" movement of the late '70s / early '80s. Was the graphic violence -- then truly shocking during the head-drilling silver sphere sequence -- part of the plan from the outset, or did that evolve as the production progressed, much like the finger in the box inspired by your poking your own finger through the bottom of a Styrofoam cup?

DC: It was never an instinct of mine that it should be a hyper-violent film. I think it was just a sort of escalation that came out of the planning of the various scenes since it evolved into a sci-fi, fantastical sort of picture. When the drilling scene came up, the guy who did it [Willard Green] said, "Hey, we could run a blood tube up his shirt and have it pump blood out of it." I said, "Yeah, yeah!" Then he said we could add chunks of rubber to the blood and it'll look like brain matter is squirting out," and I said, "Oh, yeah, let's do it!" It just sort of happened that way and, ultimately, much of what you see in that scene was partially accidental. I mean, when the drilling started and the blood was supposed to start flowing, apparently, some of the fake blood coagulated in the tube so the guy who was squeezing the syringe had to really push it hard and that cause the slight delay of the blood and then the big burst of it that comes shortly after the drilling had started. It was also interesting but unplanned how the rubber skin on the base of the actor's (Ken Jones) nose twisted around the drill as it spun but it ended up looking great. Some of it was just a stroke of luck.

DP: Your recent picture, Bubba Ho-Tep, featured physical effects produced by KNB Studios. Although you had previously stated it was budgetary reasons that prevented CGI effects from being used, do you have a preference between physical effects over CGI technology?

DC: Well, I think either, done well, I like. Either done poorly, I don't like. They each have their strengths. With the rubber [physical effects], the actor actually has something to work with and that's great. With CGI, it'll be weeks or more before you can see how well the actor did working with, basically, nothing. Certainly I don't like to criticize others' work and I've seen some great stuff but I tend to find CGI is fantastic for extending sets, creating landscapes, changing visual aspects or matting in something. I just don't think it's at the stage yet where you can really do characters well. Once you see the apparent CGI element, it sort of loses me in my involvement with what's going on at that point. I get disappointed with films where you have an excellent story going and it leads up to a final act that relies on a confrontation with a completely CGI-generated monster. It can be a letdown. It's sort of an indescribable sensation that something's gone wrong and the illusion has been broken.

DP: Without a doubt, Phantasm emerged as one of the most intense horror films of its day in regard to scare and scream value. Did you ever wonder if you had pushed the line too far and had subjected audiences to too many scares?

DC: You know, at the time I wasn't concerned about the amount of scares because I was hoping to get maximum out of it from the beginning. I was most afraid that, with the scene with the hammer and the shotgun shell, that some kid would try this and it would have a devastating effect. To this day I don't think anyone's actually tried it -- at least I haven't heard that anyone has -- and I hope it stays that way. It's funny, really, because I was somewhere between 23 and 25 years old when I thought that up and never initially worried that it could actually be dangerous to someone viewing.

DP: Readers will castigate me if I don't ask, so is there a chance of another Phantasm film?

DC: Yes. A chance. Nothing set in stone. The good thing is that everybody's sill in good shape. I just saw Angus recently and he looks great. Reggie's doing just fine. It's a hard thing to consider, though. I mean, we're in a bit of a quandary right now because we could license the rights to a big studio to do a remake with whole new cast but, then, again, we'd like to do it ourselves with the original cast but probably have to do it on a tight budget and maybe only get a direct-to-DVD type of sequel, and I don't really want that. There's always the possibility to do another because I really like all of those guys from the film, working with them is fun, and I'm close friends with all of them. I do have a couple of ideas for another picture, though.

DP: Back to Kenny & Co. for a moment. Apparently, Dan McCann has become as elusive as Elvis himself.

DC: Yeah, I really tried to find him to be included in the DVD extras and I guess I never realized what a popular name "Dan McCann" was. There were 15 Dan McCanns in Southern California directory and I dialed them all looking for him. In fact, late at night one guy called from Beijing, China because he got my message and wondered why I called. I asked him, "Were you 12 years old in 1976 and lived in Southern California?" "No," he said and that was the end of that call.

DP: Now that the DVD has been released, perhaps Dan will emerge to be properly recognized and congratulated for his excellent work.

DC: Yeah, because he really did an excellent job and carried the film incredibly well.

DP: Speaking of DVDs and audio commentaries specifically, during the Kenny & Co. commentary, you made it a point to thank "us" for screening the film a second time to listen in on your comments and observations. I believe fans and other DVD enthusiasts find yours are among the most informative, fun, and well-prepared commentaries around.

DC: Well, it's interesting you say that because [the commentaries I do] are always open, free-flowing, and you never where they're going to go. I could never do one by myself, I don't think, because I enjoy the interaction when I can get several of us together. I have certain pet peeves about commentaries, actually. A lot of commentaries I've heard really take a while to get going and I usually wind up turning them off pretty quickly. When I get ready for a commentary, I first get the actors and others together to pump them up. I tell them, "OK, we're gonna get this rolling right away and keep the conversation going"; I really try to get them worked up first. I don't want to do one of those commentaries where it starts up and you hear the director say, "Um, hello. We're here now and we're going to do a commentary"; I don't get very far into those ones. And so, I guess the reason I thanked [the viewers] during the commentary is because there are so many DVDs I watch where I never bother to listen to the commentary. (laughs)

DP: I think it's safe to say the fans do appreciate the time you take to deliver such an interesting discussion.

DC: Yeah, and I really like to hear that because I think they do like it. One of the wonderful things about the Phantasm series is the fans, the Internet presence, and the terrific interaction it all provides. Certainly the films leave a lot open for interpretations, and some of the feedback I received from fans directly or through the web site is really interesting, especially hearing all the suggestions and opinions these folks have about the different aspects of the films. It's clear that they've been able to watch the pictures more than I have. It's great and it's nice to hear that what I can put in a commentary is satisfactory to them.

DP: What do you believe to be the elements of a truly "special" DVD edition and what sorts of extras do you try to dig up when developing a DVD release?

DC: Certainly I enjoy all the behind-the-scenes stuff in older films, especially those originally shot in Super-8 or 16mm. I'm always fascinated from technical point of view in how filmmakers achieved what they did and so I tend to find this to be the most interesting content in a special edition DVD. The same goes for any DVD release, really. I mean, the Armageddon DVD was interesting to me not so much for the film itself but for the great behind-the-scenes material where the effects guys and other crew members explain how they did certain things, how they achieved certain effects. Without that sort of content, I can only sit there and try to figure out in a vacuum how something was achieved, and it's great when the guy's there explaining exactly how it was done, often causing me to think, "Wow! That was so easy and it looks so great."

DP: Are there any more DVD projects of your films currently in the works? Will we get to see Jim, the World's Greatest find its way to DVD anytime soon?

DC: No plans on Jim at this time. Rights are a bit undefined regarding who would put it out. There is a real exciting project coming very soon if you have a region-free DVD player. Anchor Bay UK is putting out an ultimate Phantasm four-disc set with all four films and a bunch of new extras. It's going to be incredible, really. They sent two guys over from the UK to track down everybody from the film for a new [featurette]. I think it's going to be a 90-minute documentary. They've talked to Kathy Lester, the Lady in Lavender. They took Reggie Bannister all over Southern California to revisit all of the original shooting locations. They even went back to the surface of the red planet. It's going to be a great set. It's scheduled for a fall release and it should be fun. [According to www.anchorbay.co.uk, the set is slated for a September '05 release.]

DP: Well, Don, thank you for the excellent information here about Kenny & Co, the Phantasm series, and everything in between. There are so many fans that appreciate your work and are likewise glad to see another of your films get a well-deserved DVD release.

DC: Thank you and thanks for all the nice words about Kenny & Co. I'm really happy with the film itself and that it's on DVD now. Oh, and thank your two boys for their enthusiasm for the picture too. It's great to know that it still has appeal to kids today.