A Return To Shawshank Prison: An Interview With Writer/Director Frank Darabont

Judge Patrick Naugle

September 29th, 2004

Chances are that if you don't know who Frank Darabont is, you'll most certainly recognize his films. The writer and director of the Oscar nominated The Green Mile and The Majestic, Darabont toiled away in Hollywood in the 1980s on such films as A Nightmare on Elm Street 3: The Dream Warriors and The Fly II until finally getting his big break bringing Stephen King's novella "Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption" to the screen. Considered a modern day classic—as well as the #2 ranked film at the Internet Movie Database website, right behind The Godfather—The Shawshank Redemption is being re-released on DVD by Warner Brothers in a new two-disc set that sports documentaries, featurettes, and a commentary by Darabont.

DVD Verdict's Patrick Naugle sat down with Frank to discuss what it took to bring Shawshank to the big screen, why the Oscars are like Las Vegas, and what the future holds for a whip-toting hero named Indiana Jones.

Patrick Naugle: Why after all these years a return to The Shawshank Redemption DVD?

Frank Darabont: We never actually had a really good one out there, I think. The other one was just sort of put out quickly, way back when. It was always a very indifferent transfer and not a particularly good one at that. It certainly did a disservice to the movie and didn't do anything for the fans. I always knew that I wanted to put a better version out there and so many people asked throughout the years. I always knew I should do a director's commentary. I knew we had a terrific half hour documentary and these guys in the UK did an hour-long documentary, I saw it and thought that it would be amazing on a DVD. So all those components came together and last year I realized we're coming up on our ten-year anniversary. What better occasion to do it? So I kind of pushed the button on doing this.

Warner Brothers was really into it and I wanted to put out something that was a little more definitive, honestly, for the fans who love the film. Plus it was my opportunity to get some Drew Struzan art done. I commissioned Drew to do the DVD cover for us, and it's also our one-sheet for the theatrical re-release.

PN: How difficult was it to make The Shawshank Redemption?

FD: Diabolically difficult. (laughs) Every movie is diabolically difficult to do. The very nature of it is an enormous challenge. The exhaustion and technical aspects are huge. In terms of the peripheral elements...was the studio a pain in the ass? Were any of those components difficult? No, in fact it was really a dream. I took the script to Castle Rock Productions, they read it and said they'd love to do it. They said I could direct it and I got nothing but their trust and support from that day on.

PN: What was the reason for changing Red's heritage from a redheaded Irishman in the book to an African-American on film?

FD: Two words: Morgan Freeman. It never occurred to me to change the race of that character until Liz Glotzer at Castle Rock mentioned Morgan Freeman and I thought he'd be awesome in that role. So we went with the Sigourney Weaver method of casting. Ridley Scott cast her [in the 1979 film Alien] in a role that was meant for a guy and he didn't really even change any of the dialogue to embody that. For me Morgan embodied that character so beautifully, his dignity, the way he is as an actor. Skin color just wasn't a factor. You know, it's funny...everyone asks me about that, but no one ever asks me why I cast Tim Robbins in a role written for a really tiny guy. Robbins is six-foot-four and Andy, in the book, is the smallest guy in Shawshank Prison. Ultimately it's what the actor brings that makes them right for the role.

PN: Did you know you had something special on your hands while you were making the film?

FD: I thought we had a pretty good movie on our hands. People will ask, "did you know you were making a classic?," and I'm thinking, please, I was just trying to get through my days. I was just hoping to get the movie on film and not screw it up! (laughs)

PN: People really love it. It's garnered an unbelievable following on DVD and video.

FD: I know, it's amazing. You can never anticipate that kind of thing, honestly. All you can do is enjoy it if it happens. Not that many people are lucky enough to have even one thing that becomes greater than itself, greater than the sum of its parts. And this is one of those, and I'm delighted.

PN: How do you feel about the film becoming—and I don't think this is an exaggeration—one of the most beloved movies of our time?

FS: Fabulous! At a certain point it doesn't even feel like I had anything to do with it. It's now ten years later and indeed you can't plan for something like that when you shoot a movie. You just hope that the movie works on its own terms. It's the audience that turns it into something special.

PN: What did Stephen King say before and after the film's release?

FD: Steve's input on that and The Green Mile—I sent him the script on both films—was pretty much, "I love it, good luck, make sure you invite me to the premiere." Steve has been very trusting and has allowed me to take his material and do with it what I will. I assume he thinks he's in good hands because I'm pretty faithful to what he does.

PN: You've really had success bringing King's books to the screen where many others have failed.

FD: You know, there are some extraordinary good films out there that have been made from his work: Stand By Me, The Dead Zone, Dolores Claiborne.

PN: And notice that those all have more of a human-interest angle to them than mayhem and monsters.

FD: Yes, and consequentially they appeal to filmmakers who are more keyed into that aspect of it. Some of the other movies, the first thing the filmmakers tend to jettison is that subtler, more character based stuff, because they think it's all about the monsters, the fur and the fangs. But Steve has always been a character driven writer. There's a reason why he's one of the best-loved writers of all time, and it's not because of the fangs. It's because he's a real writer of characters that become very vivid to the reader. When you jettison that stuff all you've got is plot, and plot accounts for a lot but it's not everything. If all you're doing is plot then you're not really going to care about what's going on in the film.

PN: After The Green Mile were you at all hesitant about being labeled 'The Guy Who Makes Stephen King Prison Dramas'?

FD: Hey, there are worse things to be labeled! (laughs) I actually had a few friends question the decision to make The Green Mile. They said that I might get typecast, but if I'm going to get typecast making stories I love the most, then so be it. The Green Mile turned out to be a great choice since it ended up being the biggest hit Castle Rock has ever had. So just form a practical business decision it proved to be great. But I don't think anyone's subsequently thought that Darabont is a one-trick pony, and that all I can do is prison movies! You can't say no when you fall in love with something just because it might be perceived as similar to the last movie you made. In fact, I think these are very two different films. The only common thread in the prison setting.

PN: The Green Mile bookends nicely with The Shawshank Redemption. Both films deal with the subject of redemption and faith.

FD: Yeah, they're really very spiritual pieces.

PN: Believe it or not, contemporary churches often use the films—especially Shawshank—as examples of faith in motion and the power of being free through redemption.

FD: Isn't that great?!? I love that it's come to mean something to somebody. I think it's fantastic. You know, I'm really happy about that because the most overtly religious character in Shawshank is the villain. (laughs) When I was making the film I was worried about that because I wasn't trying to slam religious people, I was trying to slam hypocritical bullies. It's really funny how it has been embraced by various religious groups. I think they recognize that Andy is a legitimately spiritual character so they see past the surface thing about the warden, the Bible-thumper, and I'm grateful for that. It's really cool. One of the documentaries on the DVD deals with that aspect of the film. Until I saw that documentary a year or two ago I hadn't realized how embraced it had become by religious groups, Christians, et cetera.

PN: You have a less violet The Passion on your hands.

FD: Hey, cool! I'll take it! (laughs)

PN: Why Stephen King? I know that Shawshank wasn't your first work in Hollywood, but it was your breakthrough movie.

FD: Why Stephen King is like saying why a particular flavor of ice cream. He's just somebody whose work has meant a lot to me over the years. I've been a constant reader of his since the publishing of "The Shining." I read every word of that book. I think he's such a marvelous storyteller, a very humanistic storyteller, and a very moral storyteller. I think he's one of the greats, right up there with Dickens. When I read The Shawshank Redemption I remember thinking that was something I could really care about. If you're going to go out and take the trouble to direct a movie, which is really a huge commitment, I think you really need to fall in love. You can take any job, but to do something you really care about is something special.

Right around the time I was writing Shawshank I was being offered the odd thing here and there to make my directing debut, including a Chucky movie. I don't want to see a Chucky movie much less spend that kind of time and effort directing a Chucky movie. So that's why Stephen King. He really speaks to me. He really speaks to my heart. And I think the proof in that pudding is the fact that The Shawshank Redemption speaks so much to the heart of the audiences that love it. That's Stephen King's doing, that ain't me.

PN: The Majestic didn't have the box office returns of The Green Mile. Do you think audiences were expecting something different from Jim Carrey? Or possibly even you as a director?

FD: I don't know. I have the feeling that the biggest problem was—and this isn't me in denial—sometimes you release a movie at the wrong time. Have you ever heard of a film called March or Die? The reason no one has seen it is because it was released in 1977 on the same day as Star Wars. The Majestic came out on the same day as the first Lord of the Rings film and we just got stomped flat. It was a very competitive Christmas season to release a movie, and Lord of the Rings just steamrolled us. I don't think anyone really gave it a chance. If it had been February we may have had a whole different story. Then the question of if the audience would accept Jim Carrey in that type or role would have been answered.

PN: Were you happy with the final cut of The Majestic?

FD: I'm very proud of that movie. I'm hoping that people check that out on DVD. I'm as proud of that as I am The Green Mile or Shawshank. Of course it's disappointing when a film doesn't find an audience for whatever reason...release date, competition, not enough people care about a Frank Capra style film. Who knows what the reasons are. To me it's just as beautiful a child as my other films.

PN: Is there one film in particular that you hold in high regard?

PN: Purely from my perspective as a filmmaker The Green Mile is the one I'm most proud of. It was a very ambitious movie to make and presented a series of challenges that were very unique. It captured a very distinct tone. It's the one that I think does the most as a movie. I love all the components of it. It's the one I take the most satisfaction in having made. I also like that it is, in a sense, the most open to interpretation in the viewer. It's the least cut and dry and I love movies like that. I love movies where you have to think about it.

PN: There's a lot going on in both King's book and your movie. More than you realize in just one sitting.

FD: Yeah, there's a whole lot going on in that movie. What is the theme, exactly? That's up for the audience to figure out. I like that it asks of the audience to decide what to make of it. Of course, Shawshank has that effect on people too. Yet I think in a way The Green Mile is the more sophisticated and ambiguous of the two films, and I like that. I like not having to force the conclusion on an audience.

PN: Both films were nominated for Best Picture Oscars. How do you feel about getting Best Picture nods but no Best Director nominations?

FD: I think it's fascinating. I seemed to have carved an interesting niche here by having directed three movies. Two of them got nominated for Best Picture and Best Screenplay but neither got nominated for Best Director. Yet both were nominated for Director's Guild awards, and that's a consistent reaction. To me it's just funny that both of these movies played out exactly in that regard. It's funny, everyone always rolls their eyes and thinks you're full of shit when you say that it's an honor just to be nominated, but you know what? It really is an honor to be nominated, and that's the God's honest truth. I think that's the greatest achievement. This isn't a consolation prize talking here; I think that's the real achievement. The Oscar race isn't a scientific process. I'm always amused by what got nominated, what didn't...it's all subjective opinion. Essentially what the Oscars are is someone's list of their five favorite movies of that particular year. Three to four hundred movies come out each year and to make that cut, it's really amazing.

PN: When you think about it the whole point of film is an individual reaction.

FD: Absolutely. Now, who takes the statue home...that's like going to Vegas and throwing the ball onto the roulette wheel. Flip a coin. As an Academy voter I myself have had that experience where I'm left staring at this list of nominees trying to cast my vote in any given category and it drives me crazy. How can you deem anything to be the best when you're talking about five excellent films? Often times you're comparing apples to apples...and to pick just one? It winds up almost being a coin flip at the end of the day. It's eight thousand random opinions tossed into a hat. Your subjective reality is not the same as everyone else's. And you know what? The people in the Academy are as susceptible to what's hip and hot as the public is. So sometimes they'll get swept into a certain direction and years later ask how a specific movie won an Oscar.

PN: Early in your writing career, during the 1980s you worked on some meagerly budgeted horror films. Let's play a little word association game. You tell me the first thing that you think about when I name some movies. A Nightmare on Elm Street 3: The Dream Warriors?

FD: Chuck Russell. Chuck and I wrote that together in eleven days. We did a pretty substantial rewrite on an already existing script. They hired Chuck about three weeks from filming. Imagine being three weeks away from filming, you don't have a director, and your script doesn't work! So they hired Chuck and he tells me that we're going to do a Freddy movie as I'm working on another script. The next thing I know we're in a cabin in Big Bear, California, locked in for eleven days writing this script! Before you could even Xerox the script he was saying "action"! He's been a great, great friend and has been for many years. When you mention that film, I think of Chuck.

PN: The 1988 remake of The Blob?

FD: Same thing with The Blob: Chuck Russell. That was the script I was just finishing typing when Chuck walked in and said we're doing A Nightmare on Elm Street 3. (laughs) So we wound up doing A Nightmare on Elm Street 3 first and The Blob second. It takes me back to our struggling days when we were trying to write scripts together. I would write down at Chuck's apartment on Elm Drive, funny enough, in Beverly Hills back in his bachelor days. That was a lot of fun.

PN: Were you happy with the outcome of both of those films?

FD: Yes I was, very much so. They were both very low budget. Nightmare was $4 ½ million, The Blob was $11 million, and both did what they set out to do. I was proud of those. Low budget horror is a great place for aspiring writers to get their start.

PN: The words "low budget" seem almost to be a thing of the past.

FD: (sighs) I don't understand how costs have risen like they have. I don't think anyone sets out to intentionally make a movie more expensive than they have to. Maybe there are a few lunatics in the bunch, but most of us want to be as economical as we can. The costs today are staggering. I was talking to Tom Cruise the other day—we're working on Mission: Impossible 3 together—and we were worrying about the budget. While we're looking at the costs Cruise looks at me and tells me that they made Top Gun for $17 million! I couldn't believe it! It wasn't that long ago that you could make Top Gun for $17 million. Today it would cost $120 million, minimum! Where the hell are those costs coming from?

I'll tell you one place where we do have an advantage: the digital technology. Look at what Michael Mann just did with Collateral, giving you shots of LA at night when you can see miles away and giving us a noir look that we've never seen before on screen. I also love the CGI technologies. I made more use of that in The Green Mile and The Majestic than you'd think. Neither of those seems like an effects film but to enhance a shot in ways the audience never recognizes, that's thrilling. Now, talk about a movie that could have used some CGI: The Blob. They did a really good job puppeteering slime by hand, but there are a couple of shots in there where I look back and just cringe. It would have been so cool to have had some computer imaging or help on some of those shots.

PN: The internet is abuzz with a lot of projects you're "supposedly" working on, including "Indiana Jones 4," Mission: Impossible 3, and an adaptation of Ray Bradbury's "Fahrenheit 451." What's the scoop?

FD: "Indiana Jones 4" is in the dumper, I'm afraid. That was a rather disappointing circumstance. I wrote a script I was very happy with, and Steven [Spielberg] was in love with it and very happy with it and wanted to shoot it this year. George Lucas read it and didn't like it at all. Suddenly it was down in flames. That was a disappointment.

As for working with Tom Cruise on Mission: Impossible 3, that was a blast! I Just loved that experience. I think it all goes well it will totally brush aside the first two films. I think it will really be the best of the three. "Fahrenheit 451" is a movie I've wanted to make since I was nine years old when I read Bradbury's book. I've got the screenplay finished and I'm looking for a home for that. Keep your fingers crossed.