Kevin Smith and Red State

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Kevin Smith and Red State

Postby the5thghostbuster » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:58 pm

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Re: Kevin Smith and Red State

Postby mkiker2089 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:34 pm

Anytime I hear someone in Hollywood announce their retirement I immediately think either publicity stunt or temper tantrum. Usually it's both. How do you retire from what you are supposed to love doing? It would be like retiring from playing video games or driving your car. I'm not saying that directing is easy, but it's his life ambition (or should be for any director) which is why I make the mixed metaphor about it.

If a director really retires they don't need to make a press statement and an ass of themselves in public. Just say no the next time you are offered to direct a film.
-Marshall-
Nun sacciu, nun vidi, nun ceru e si ceru durmiv.
I know nothing, I see nothing, I wasn't there,
and if I was there, I was asleep.
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Re: Kevin Smith and Red State

Postby cdouglas » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:28 pm

Kevin Smith has been spending an alarming amount of his time tilting at windmills lately. The man has made a few decent movies, but his sense of self-importance and his inability to accept reasonable criticism make him difficult to take seriously.
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Re: Kevin Smith and Red State

Postby Dunnyman » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:41 pm

cdouglas wrote:Kevin Smith has been spending an alarming amount of his time tilting at windmills lately. The man has made a few decent movies, but his sense of self-importance and his inability to accept reasonable criticism make him difficult to take seriously.

Have you read his book? He takes criticism quite well, his problem is with people who bash his films without ever having seen them, which, to me, is quite valid. When religious people gathered to scream about Dogma and none of them had seen it or read the script, it was kind of retarded. He was defensive about people dissing him for Jersey Girl, when most of the people who slammed it for it's lack of "dick and fart jokes" were the ones who ragged him about making movies with so many of them in the first place. He called hypocrite on those who deserved it. His critique of the Hollywood system happens to be spot-on, as well. You can spend your way to a 50 million dollar opening with just about anything. No studios seem to feel his Red State deserved a chance, and he gripes about that, but if you look at his track record, he's never lost money. Due to being the kind of guy he is, he can get names to appear on the cheap, he doesn't spend a zillion dollars on FX, and by his tireless speaking engagements, podcasts, etc. he provides a fair amount of publicity on his own for anything he's done. So why wouldn't a studio give him a chance on Red State? After all, they'll spend 50 million for every pile of crap that Jennifer Aniston bombs in. The guy's inventive, clever, and funnier than all get out, and all he does is get shat upon for it. He wants to retire? I wonder why.
Oh and "sense of self-importance"? There's few guys as humble as he is out there.
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Re: Kevin Smith and Red State

Postby the5thghostbuster » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:28 pm

Dunnyman wrote:
cdouglas wrote:Kevin Smith has been spending an alarming amount of his time tilting at windmills lately. The man has made a few decent movies, but his sense of self-importance and his inability to accept reasonable criticism make him difficult to take seriously.

Have you read his book? He takes criticism quite well, his problem is with people who bash his films without ever having seen them, which, to me, is quite valid. When religious people gathered to scream about Dogma and none of them had seen it or read the script, it was kind of retarded. He was defensive about people dissing him for Jersey Girl, when most of the people who slammed it for it's lack of "dick and fart jokes" were the ones who ragged him about making movies with so many of them in the first place. He called hypocrite on those who deserved it. His critique of the Hollywood system happens to be spot-on, as well. You can spend your way to a 50 million dollar opening with just about anything. No studios seem to feel his Red State deserved a chance, and he gripes about that, but if you look at his track record, he's never lost money. Due to being the kind of guy he is, he can get names to appear on the cheap, he doesn't spend a zillion dollars on FX, and by his tireless speaking engagements, podcasts, etc. he provides a fair amount of publicity on his own for anything he's done. So why wouldn't a studio give him a chance on Red State? After all, they'll spend 50 million for every pile of crap that Jennifer Aniston bombs in. The guy's inventive, clever, and funnier than all get out, and all he does is get shat upon for it. He wants to retire? I wonder why.
Oh and "sense of self-importance"? There's few guys as humble as he is out there.


Takes criticism well? You do remember what he said to the critics who saw Cop Out, right? http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1634755/kevin-smiths-online-rant-gets-heated-response-from-film-critics.jhtml
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Re: Kevin Smith and Red State

Postby cdouglas » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:34 pm

Dunnyman wrote:
cdouglas wrote:Kevin Smith has been spending an alarming amount of his time tilting at windmills lately. The man has made a few decent movies, but his sense of self-importance and his inability to accept reasonable criticism make him difficult to take seriously.

Have you read his book? He takes criticism quite well, his problem is with people who bash his films without ever having seen them, which, to me, is quite valid. When religious people gathered to scream about Dogma and none of them had seen it or read the script, it was kind of retarded. He was defensive about people dissing him for Jersey Girl, when most of the people who slammed it for it's lack of "dick and fart jokes" were the ones who ragged him about making movies with so many of them in the first place. He called hypocrite on those who deserved it. His critique of the Hollywood system happens to be spot-on, as well. You can spend your way to a 50 million dollar opening with just about anything. No studios seem to feel his Red State deserved a chance, and he gripes about that, but if you look at his track record, he's never lost money. Due to being the kind of guy he is, he can get names to appear on the cheap, he doesn't spend a zillion dollars on FX, and by his tireless speaking engagements, podcasts, etc. he provides a fair amount of publicity on his own for anything he's done. So why wouldn't a studio give him a chance on Red State? After all, they'll spend 50 million for every pile of crap that Jennifer Aniston bombs in. The guy's inventive, clever, and funnier than all get out, and all he does is get shat upon for it. He wants to retire? I wonder why.
Oh and "sense of self-importance"? There's few guys as humble as he is out there.


I haven't read his book, but I'm mostly referring to his behavior in recent times (particularly the whole Cop Out situation mentioned below; he seemed to be extraordinarily pissed off about critics disliking a film which was well below his usual standard). I'd certainly be upset if people were trashing my work before they'd seen it, but I'm talking about his reaction to people who have seen his movies. Sure, he's been subjected to some unfair reviews, but then nearly every director is. Overall, his good films have been well-received and his weaker films have been criticized. Because Smith felt critics couldn't appreciate Cop Out for what it was, he's decided that he will not grant press pre-screenings for any of his films from now on. Sorry, but that reaction seems nothing short of childish.

There are moments when Smith seems charmingly self-deprecating, but these moments are undone by the outrage he demonstrates almost every time people dislike his work. Maybe it's just me, but it usually seems pretty tacky when successful filmmakers start attacking those who write negative reviews of their work (James Cameron's attack on Kenneth Turan over the latter's Titanic review, for instance). Plenty of talented filmmakers have taken just as much crap as Kevin Smith, but most of them don't have a martyr complex about it.

As for his critique of the Hollywood system, hey, I don't disagree. If this whole self-distribution thing works for him, more power to him. I'd love to see the model work for others, too (though the idea of paying much higher ticket prices for an exclusive local showing certainly isn't very appealing).

As for Red State, word is that it's a pretty weak effort. Ah, but who can trust those evil critics? After all, they'll try to crucify Kevin Smith no matter what he does, right?
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Re: Kevin Smith and Red State

Postby HGervais » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:49 pm

The problem I see with Red State is it is being sold as one thing when in fact the movie is something else. Don't get pissed at people when you are advertising a horror film but instead deliver a heavy-handed polemic on the evils of the Westboro Baptist Church and the Branch Davidians at Waco.
And did Kevin Smith bother to watch Cop-Out? I mean good gosh that was unfunny a movie as I have ever seen.
"The most dementing of all modern sins: the inability to distinquish excellence from success."-David Hare
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Re: Kevin Smith and Red State

Postby Gabriel Girard » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:57 pm

I used to be a huge Smith fan but his attitude has turned me off, combining this with the fact that his funniest film in 2010 years is a direct sequel of his first film - I'm kind of off the bandwagon until he does something good again.
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Re: Kevin Smith and Red State

Postby HGervais » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:10 pm

Kevin Smith's speech to Sundance. It's Kevin Smith, so you know the language is not safe for work.
"The most dementing of all modern sins: the inability to distinquish excellence from success."-David Hare
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Re: Kevin Smith and Red State

Postby HGervais » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:21 am

And counterpoint via Drew Faraci.
"The most dementing of all modern sins: the inability to distinquish excellence from success."-David Hare
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