Scientology - an eye-opener!

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Scientology - an eye-opener!

Postby Steve T Power » Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:04 pm

I was unsure of whether I should put this here or in off-topic, but ultimately I decided that the close ties between Scientology and celebrity made its incuslion here a worthwhile effort.

There's a TON of stuff to digest here, 26 pages worth, but I implore you, read everything before you make a judgement either way.

Apostate: Paul Haggis vs. the Church of Scientology
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Re: Scientology - an eye-opener!

Postby cdouglas » Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:19 pm

Read this yesterday. Fascinating, informative article; well worth the investment of time required to read the whole thing.
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Re: Scientology - an eye-opener!

Postby Steve T Power » Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:30 pm

cdouglas wrote:Read this yesterday. Fascinating, informative article; well worth the investment of time required to read the whole thing.


For sure. Who'd have thought that, like pretty much every other religion out there, Scientology is a corrupt dictatorship founded on some surprisingly solid teachings and principles. I have a new found respect for Hubbard anyway. The article seems to paint a picture of an organization founded with the best of intentions but corrupted by a few power hungry and considerably unscrupulous individuals.
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Re: Scientology - an eye-opener!

Postby mkiker2089 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:54 pm

In all fairness I didn't finish reading the article. I do know a little about Scientology however and have read Hubbards writings. He seems like an intelligent person but Dianetics is full of the traditional vague double speak that most psuedo-religions use. You know the type, vague enough that you can apply it to yourself (or anyone) but cleverly written so you think it's specific.

I'm no expert but I was reading about Scientology before Hollywood discovered it and it was very creepy and cultish then. I can only imagine what it would be like now. It was founded on decent principles perhaps but it has clauses in it to keep people hooked. You can't, for example, lead a "clear" or fulfilled life without spending a fortune at one of their meetings. It also makes no qualms about pointing out that non-beleivers are infidels. They don't use that term but they make sure to point out how their lives are fruitless and their energy is wasted. One specific example was Alexander the Great who would have conquered the universe by age 10 if her were a "clear"

This all came directly from Hubbard himself also. He was very much alive and active at the time.

I guess what I'm saying in short is that you can't really blame the people who run it now. Hubbard had flaws and they were built into the system so the fact that the system is flawed is really the only possible outcome.

mark my words, in a few years when enough names wake up we'll see Scientology in a whole new light.
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Re: Scientology - an eye-opener!

Postby Bryan Pope » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:06 pm

mkiker2089 wrote:It also makes no qualms about pointing out that non-beleivers are infidels. They don't use that term but they make sure to point out how their lives are fruitless and their energy is wasted.

On the other hand, Scientology is hardly the only religion guilty of that.
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Re: Scientology - an eye-opener!

Postby mkiker2089 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:17 pm

Bryan Pope wrote:
mkiker2089 wrote:It also makes no qualms about pointing out that non-beleivers are infidels. They don't use that term but they make sure to point out how their lives are fruitless and their energy is wasted.

On the other hand, Scientology is hardly the only religion guilty of that.


No, no it's not. I suppose it's better than the strangely contradicting Koran. I don't recall Hubbard telling people word for word the proper way to beat ones wife.

It's kind of alarming the flaws in most religions that get overlooked.
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Re: Scientology - an eye-opener!

Postby cdouglas » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:57 pm

mkiker2089 wrote:It's kind of alarming the flaws in most religions that get overlooked.


True, but when one has convinced themselves that something is unquestionably the "word of God" or what have you, one is inclined to perform the mental gymnastics required to find ways around any problems they might encounter. Or, as is often the case, they just accept it and don't question it despite the obvious problems, for such behavior is often praised as strong faith and is encouraged.
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Re: Scientology - an eye-opener!

Postby Steve T Power » Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:04 pm

cdouglas wrote:
mkiker2089 wrote:It's kind of alarming the flaws in most religions that get overlooked.


True, but when one has convinced themselves that something is unquestionably the "word of God" or what have you, one is inclined to perform the mental gymnastics required to find ways around any problems they might encounter. Or, as is often the case, they just accept it and don't question it despite the obvious problems, for such behavior is often praised as strong faith and is encouraged.


What's doubly troubling is when these lapses in logic in the name of "faith" are hammered home at a very young age and enforced through rigorous and restricted doctrine that keeps practitioners isolated from other influences. At least with Catholicism you have the freedom of choice, and the ability to see the world for what it is and to make up your own mind. Isolationists scare the crap out of me, as they only have the influence of their peers and community leaders on which to judge their own beliefs. Sure I could be a Bible-thumping hardline Opus Dei Roman Catholic, but that choice isn't made from ignorance, and if it is, it's willful ignorance.
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Re: Scientology - an eye-opener!

Postby mkiker2089 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:02 pm

It's the isolationism that pushed me away from Scientology. That's why I said it felt cultish and creepy.

I probably shouldn't say it but part of me suspects that Hubbard wasn't as much a good natured person as much as a Waco style leader who knew how to reign people in. I have nothing but a gut feeling on that however. I read Dianetics and was intrigued but the more I found out and the more I was forced to deal with scientologists face to face the more it alarmed me.

I could be wrong though, did anyone here make it further in before bailing?

edit- when I compare Hubbard to Waco I do realize that at the very worst he made money off people. Waco was a very different situation.
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Re: Scientology - an eye-opener!

Postby Dunnyman » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:46 pm

I spent a fair amount of time with those....people. Some of the basic Dianetics principals do work, but they're nothing one can't get from various types of simple therapy, ie, regression, hypnosis, etc. When the person in charge at my local....afilliate, began telling me about the space beings, I was "Outta here!" so fast, it'd make yer head spin. Of course at that point my serious gripe against them was their felling of 83,000,000 million acres of trees weekly to send me 97,000 tons of junk mail I did not want or need. When I delivered an entire truckload of it into their lobby and told them to stop sending it or I'd get really mad, they quit. Seriously, my brother opened both of their lobby doors and I backed up at full throttle with the tailgate down and slammed on the brakes.
Having said that, they made a few points that still ring true, like Prozac and Paxil are not good for the human body (however, there are tons of safe alternatives nowadays) and that often meds get overprescribed where therapy can resolve the issues.
Then again, if being "clear" is the answer to all your problems, I give you the example formerly known as Kirstie Alley. They never mention her anymore, do they, when they're talking about the celebrities in Scientology?
If it makes people happy, and they're not bothering me, I'm cool with it, just like I'm cool with any religion that ain't getting jammed down my throat.
Oh, yeah, and purely on a literary level, Hubbard wrote some of the shittiest Sci-Fi ever. Seriously, he couldn't carry Orson Scott Card's jock.
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Re: Scientology - an eye-opener!

Postby Boba Fett » Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:19 pm

Harlan Ellison was closely acquainted with Hubbard.

I swear there was a video with Ellison talking about he and a few other writers jokingly telling a struggling Hubbard that making up a religion was his key to riches.

Either way, here's a short piece with Ellison talking to Robin Williams about Hubbard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9AGVARpqdk
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Re: Scientology - an eye-opener!

Postby Burson_Fouch » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:35 am

Boba Fett wrote:Harlan Ellison was closely acquainted with Hubbard.

I swear there was a video with Ellison talking about he and a few other writers jokingly telling a struggling Hubbard that making up a religion was his key to riches.

Either way, here's a short piece with Ellison talking to Robin Williams about Hubbard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9AGVARpqdk


The, probably apocryphal, story I heard was that Hubbard and Philip K. Dick were having dinner sometime in the late 50's and Hubbard made a bet with PKD the he could make up his own religion, sell it to rich celebrities and make millions.

So far there's been no word if PKD paid up on that bet or welched on it.

Simply put, Scientology is a scam.
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Re: Scientology - an eye-opener!

Postby stypee » Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:47 pm

My entire family are decendents of the planet Xenu and we have been trying to abolish the disturbing tarnish this so-called "religion" has inflicted upon our planet for many years!
It's not as though I really need you, if you were here I'd only bleed you..
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