LOST ... It only ends once. Discussion of Season SIX!

[BrettCullum]

SPOILER WARNING if you are NOT watching season six as it airs. I know some people here prefer to get LOST in one big chunk on DVD which I can not imagine waiting that long and trying to avoid all the discussions. But whatever floats your boat.

I was just wondering is anybody out there still watching?

I have to say the premiere underwhelmed me a bit. It seems so clunky, and like they are trying to shoe horn in the mythology still. And they also have to navigate around actors not willing to come back to the show for the ALTERNATE TIME LINE which puts everybody well off the island and safely in Los Angeles.

BAD CGI ALERTS - Noticed that underwater shot at the opening showing a sunk island and the Dharma mascot shark swimming around. Anyone else expect the opening chords of "Under the Sea" to start up with a mermaid and singing crab not far behind? Also, that smoke monster not looking quite as cool as in seasons past.

I will be watching all season even if we FAKE LOCKE becoming the main bad guy and FAKE SAYID becoming the stand-in for JACOB the good guy. Those moves seem kinda lame to me. I really feel like we are going way too far out with this whole doppelganger bullshit.

But sigh... I will be glued to the set anyways.

Anybody else with me?

[HGervais]

The thing I still really like about Lost is that it refuses to talk down to its audience and that it is unafraid to completely screw around with the way they tell their stories. The alternate timelime story is interesting in that some key details are different and it gives us a chance to spend time with the original versions of Jack & Locke...versions I really like. I thought last season was much more successful that you did and I think that two hours in season six is off to a pretty good start.

[erich]

Lost is a show that seems to reinvent itself every season. Even though we're two episodes in, I don't think we have enough info to judge the new parallel-timeline (or, as the show runners call it "flash-sideways") yet. At this point, I'm more than happy to let the writers finish the story the way they want to; they've done enough in the previous five seasons to earn it. That said, I'm intrigued by the differences between the "new" flight 815 and the previous version, the Man in Black/Fake Locke and what he means when he talks about going home, and how Ben will tie into the ultimate resolution.

Personal plug: I'm covering the final season for TV Verdict. You can check out my premiere write-up here.

[BrettCullum]

Hey Erich! Nice thoughts on the premiere out there on TV Verdict.

LOST for me got very wacky once they decided to travel back to 1977, and have quite a few people do that. It was all a little too neat and tidy to have the Ajira Airways flight crashland to an exact point where Sawyer and the gang were all along. Heck, the time travel thing is to me when the show jumped the shark and proved these writers make this up as they go. I am sorry, but until I see that final scene I am not buying these guys had a grand plan.

I do like how the show has reinvented itself from year to year. Unfortunately it suffers from the TWIN PEAKS formula of trying to be mysterious simply for mystery's own sake and leaving many questions about logical loopholes and things we can nitpick. And the more these guys explain the more I realize the mystery was so much better back in season one when I was scared and intrigued.

I guess for me I wanted a more rooted in the real world resolve than time traveling planes and alternate time lines crashing in to each other. I mean we already saw Gwenyth Paltrow do this schtick in SLIDING DOORS!

My big problem is I loved the characters in the first three years... and I loved the mystery. But now that is begining to unravel... I am just not buying the war of the angels, a spiritual smoke monster, and a fate you can not change even with a bomb.

But I reserve the right to see where they go, and render my final verdict then. But yes, season five didn't resonate with me quite as well as 1-3. I haven't even completed my collection with them on BluRay or DVD yet...

[erich]

I get where you're coming from Brett. The show feels a long way off from the character drama mixed with suspense that it started as. The supernatural stuff doesn't bother me, and I'm willing to take the writers at their word that they had the overall plan sketched out from the beginning seasons, but with only the show to go on I can see why you'd doubt it. Lost has been so much more than a TV show for a lot of people (myself included) with all the message board speculation, alternate reality games, and official podcasts. It will be fascinating to hear from people who never watched it when it was on, and only caught it on DVD later. I wonder whether removing the show from the media machine it's built around itself will make a difference.

Oh, and my write-up of episode three is up over on TV Verdict.

[BrettCullum]

Again, nice recap Erich. I commented on the TV VERDICT site to give you some things to ponder on.

But I count some of last night's episode as proof of no grand plan...

Making Claire the "new Rousseau"? Well, she made her Black Lodge debut two years ago with Christian and now she's batshit crazy crazy like the French lady? In truth I think the fact the Rousseau actress decided not to come back left them with a hole to somewhat fill. So there you are... just add the character we have no idea what to do with. Meh!

Tons of STAR WARS and STEPHEN KING references. The Dark Side of the Force took Jack's sister Claire. Sawyer is heading to Las Vegas to be with the Dark Man, Randall Flagg. Bah!

Personally, I hope they never resolve the whole KATE - JACK - SAWYER triangle. It is getting less and less interesting, especially when we consider Sawyer spent over 3 years with Juliet and only 3 months pining after Kate. She ain't all that! Whatevers people!

[erich]

I guess we're splitting the discussion between the forums and TV Verdict, so I won't repeat myself here. I will agree with you, though, that the Kate/Sawyer/Jack triangle is dead for me. Unlike a number of fans, I really liked Juliet and can't imagine a scenario where Kate and Sawyer ended up together that wouldn't piss me off.

[HGervais]

As good a Lost season six theory as I think is out there. And it's right here.

[erich]

As good a Lost season six theory as I think is out there. And it's right here.

That is a pretty good theory. They have to bring the two timelines together somehow. It would certainly give new meaning to the term "fallout."

To defend the Claire as Rousseau shift a little more, look at some more key similarities between the women (that have always been there, by the way): both were young mothers who gave birth on the island, only to have their babies taken from them. If Claire is as obsessed with getting Aaron back as Rousseau was with retrieving Alex, I wouldn't be surprised if Claire kills, or tries to kill, Island Timeline Kate (sounds like an action figure).

I'm still mulling over what it means for Claire to have been "claimed." It would seem that she is now on Smokey's side, which, if true, would explain why Rousseau described it as a "security system designed to protect the island."

[BrettCullum]

I think that is a really obvious theory and it makes total sense. Last year they were bumping in to themselves in the past, so why couldn't they do the same with the alternate time line which starts back in 2004 with them never hitting the island. There has to be an event where the two time lines intersect, and I just assumed Juliet's "We'll have coffee and go dutch!" remark was from the alternate time line version of her as well as her proclamation to Miles that "IT WORKED!!!"

Nice similarities between Rousseau and Claire, and a good catch. I don't think crazy Frenchy knew who or what smokey was in truth, and she probably assumed it was like that sonic fence. I think that is where the "defense" line came up.

Being "claimed" means you die and come back, right? Here is my problemo with that. Ben was VERY surprised to see Locke back from the dead, as if that had never happened before. And a few others were that way as well including Richard. If the Others know this bit of information then they shouldn't be too shocked.

I think we will find out Claire was "claimed" during the attack on Other town... she died in the explosion, was claimed, and came back to life if this is truly the way it works.

Claire Bear didn't seem too concerned about Mr. Aaron when she was in that cabin with the old man Shepherd or Smokey Christian... And didn't she just drop him in some plants in the jungle at one point?

I know Kate's road to salvation is trying to reunite Claire and Aaron. Yet I wonder why she did not bring him along with her so we could actually see the mother and son connect on the island.

[BrettCullum]

But here's my nitpick about Claire...

How did she learn to set those traps and shoot so well? I mean when she was a member of the LOST tribe she was hardly able to take care of herself at all. She has some mad skills now as a huntress... so where did that come from? I guess being CLAIMED comes with intense ninja jungle training!

[erich]

But here's my nitpick about Claire...

How did she learn to set those traps and shoot so well? I mean when she was a member of the LOST tribe she was hardly able to take care of herself at all. She has some mad skills now as a huntress... so where did that come from? I guess being CLAIMED comes with intense ninja jungle training!

Fair question, but how did Rousseau learn how to do those same things? If Claire has been taken over by something, it's possible "it" knows how to do those things. Maybe Rousseau, and now Claire, act as some kind of guerrilla solders for whoever "claimed" them.

It will be interesting to see whether Lindelof and Cuse go to the trouble of explaining all the different types of manifestations our characters have come across. Besides those we can most likely attribute to Smokey (including Locke, Yemi, Ben's mother, and possibly Christian), you've got the on-island appearances of living people like Dave and Walt, dead people like Jacob and Horace, PLUS the off-island appearances to Jack and Hurley by Christian, Charlie, and Ana Lucia. And don't even get me started about the whispers.

At this point, we know very little about the Man In Black. It's tempting to attribute more power to him than he may actually have. He is terrifying as Smokey, but the fact that he can be contained by ashes suggests he's not all-powerful. Then again, neither was Jacob. He may have been super old, but he was mortal.

[BrettCullum]

We know Smokey was Locke, Yemi, Ben's dead daughter, and Christian Shepherd. Basically you can bet anybody who has their corpse on the island can be Smokey.

Dave is only in Hurley's mind. He is not a dead person, merely a psychotic hallucination. But we have established Hurley much like Miles can see and hear dead people. So that explains Anna Lucia and Charlie showing up. I am curious to know how Smokey/MIB can show up on the mainland though to people like Jack yet still have trouble "going home". Maybe he's an alien! LOL! In the finale Hurley may give him some Reese's Pieces and send him on his way.

Walt can appear anywhere any time he wants. They pretty much said as much when the Others freaked out about him and asked Michael "Does he ever appear places he is not?" I will be more curious to see if they bring Walt back at all this year. I know there are plans for both him and Michael to show up, but nobody knows to what capacity or how. Or in which time line!

My big question on manifestation are the animals - Kate's horse, the Hurley bird... are they Smokey or Jacob?

[erich]

There's some speculation that Christian may not be Smokey. In part because he showed up on the mainland to Jack. To have Christian just be Smokey all this time would be kind of a let-down. Other manifestations only happened once, but he's come back many times. I'd guess that his body had just been "claimed" but there's that pesky off-island thing. Maybe he can get off the island, and "home" is somewhere else. Alien is as good a guess as any, though that would piss off pretty much everyone. (I know you were kidding.)

[BrettCullum]

From where I am sitting I would be more shocked if Sister Christian were NOT a manifestation of the smoke or MIB. He seems evil to me. But yeah, this is LOST so actually he could just be unstuck in time or the manifestation of some character we have yet to meet... But I say Smokey. Pesky off island is not that far of a cry... remember Jacob went off island to touch a whole slew of our LOSTIES. So why can't the Man in Black? I think most people speculate Jacob and Johnny Cash are rogue gods or angels playing some game of good and evil, free will and destiny. The alien thing would result in much screaming and remote control throwing. Yet I have one word for you to scare the pants off anybody... ALIAS!!!!!

[erich]

Recap/review is up for this week's episode, "The Substitute," over at TV Verdict.

[BrettCullum]

The recap is very good, and you can check out all our crazy theories... theories that will inevitably be proved wrong. I mean when has LOST ever played fair? LOL!

[Michael Stailey]

An interesting story from Movieline on how the season finale of LOST is paralleling the season finale of BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER.

[BrettCullum]

Wow, Michael! That's funny because I totally have been joking that the passengers of Flight 815 should find BUFFY so that she can fight this FIRST EVIL for them. It is VERY similar in many ways... right down to the alternate reality they created with Dawn, and the death of a hero like John Locke/Buffy.

Great comparisons!

Let's just hope I like season 6 LOST better than season 7 BUFFY. The Vampire Slayer disappointed fans for at least half of that ending run of shows. I have not quite heard the same rumblings from LOSTIES yet.

[HGervais]

Let's just hope I like season 6 LOST better than season 7 BUFFY. The Vampire Slayer disappointed fans for at least half of that ending run of shows. I have not quite heard the same rumblings from LOSTIES yet.

The problem with the final season of Buffy was mainly that almost all of the cast was so ready to move on you could tell they were sleepwalking through most of the season. And having a big bad that could not be hit, sliced or diced was also a major storytelling problem. I still have the feeling that Whedon/Noxon never really knew what story they wanted to tell and it ended up involving a lot of speeches to fill up space. I don't get any of those vibes from the Lost cast or creative team as they move through their final season.

[BrettCullum]

I agree, Harold. That poor BUFFY cast all looked so bored to be there that final year. Probably the worst was Sarah Michelle Gellar. Everybody felt very phoned in. The last couple of episodes actually seemed to perk them up a bit.

Seems like on LOST people never falter in the acting department no matter what happens. I think they have one of the best ensembles on network television, and that's amazing considering when the series was cast they were late in the game and could only get actors not committed to anything else.

Buffy's villains were also such a key feature of the season. I think the weakest ones reflect the years they were in being substandard as well.

On the flip side LOST seems to also concentrate on a bad guy every season, yet they are never traditional or what they seem at first. My only concern is this... as LOST has demystified each bad force I sort of found them laughable afterwards. The Others? Once frightening ninja hillbillies became Lands End clothed yuppies living in nice houses. Hardly the feral torch carriers we thought they were! The Dharma initiative? What seemed like an evil scientific empire out to exploit the mystic island turned out to be a hippie commune of bumbling leaderless fools. Even mssr Smoke Monster was once a frightening mass of what appeared to be nano cloud technology. Well, now it's simply the Man in Black in a nasty mood.

The only thing I fear is that the answers won't be as delicious as the ending. Kinda like when Spike's jewelry was the key to everything...

[HGervais]

Some eagle-eyed viewers pick up more names & numbers in the cave Flocke took James to, right here.

[molly1216]

Some eagle-eyed viewers pick up more names & numbers in the cave Flocke took James to, right here.

? link

[erich]

My write-up on LOST 6.5: "The Lighthouse" is up over on TV Verdict.

[BrettCullum]

YAY! New stuff to debate on the TV VERDICT thread...

[erich]

LOST 6.6: "Sundown" recap over at TV Verdict. Sayid apologists welcome!

[erich]

Paging "Dr. Linus"... My LOST 6.7 write-up has been posted over on TV Verdict.

[erich]

Good Cop, Bad Cop; Rime of the Ancient Submariner; and Squirrel Baby returns! Check out my write-up for "Recon" over at TV Verdict.

[HGervais]

Back around season one the Lost guys were giving an interview and one of the said that Stephen King's The Stand was a major influence on the show. With this final season I think we are finally starting to see that they were serious.

[erich]

"The Package" has been delivered. My latest write-up has been posted over on TV Verdict.

[BrettCullum]

And the package is Desmond! I think Charles Widmore just won the WORST FATHER IN-LAW title for eternity.

[Steve T Power]

I'm so confused!

[HGervais]

So was Faraday telling Desomnd that it was the explosion of the nuke that is causing these slideways flashes?

[Michael Stailey]

So was Faraday telling Desomnd that it was the explosion of the nuke that is causing these slideways flashes?

That or the entire pocket universe they're living in.

[erich]

So was Faraday telling Desomnd that it was the explosion of the nuke that is causing these slideways flashes?

That or the entire pocket universe they're living in.

Or, he could almost be right. Maybe the sideways timeline was created by another, larger explosion... Check out my TV Verdict write-up for more. (How's that for a tease?)

[erich]

How much do you love Hugo? This week's write-up is posted over at TV Verdict.

[Selk]

I was a hardcore fan of "Lost" for a very long time. I discovered it during the summer reruns after the second season, started getting the episodes on Netflix and really got hooked. Now, however, I'm burned out. As the series nears its end, I am finding it to be a bit of a chore to watch. I am ready for the last episode but I struggle through all this build-up.

[erich]

The action is packed in this week's episode of LOST, "The Candidate." Check out my write-up over on TV Verdict.

[Selk]

For about the last two seasons this show has gone from compelling to frustrating. We're nearing the end and the show keeps posing questions and mysteries that it seems unwilling to answer. In other words, this show's major frustration comes from the fact that it always seems to answer a question with another question.

I have been utterly bored by most of season 6 but, I figure, i've been in this since the beginning and it would seem silly to bail out just as it is nearing a conclusion. YET, ever since the episode called "Ab Aeterno" (which is Latin for "from eternity"), the episode that told Richard's backstory, I have a renewed interest. Suddenly the show has sparked back to life and I can plainly see that it is building to something.

*** SPOILER WARNING ***

This week dispatched four characters: Sun, Jin, Sayid and Frank. This, I did NOT see coming. There are three episodes left so it makes me wonder who's going out before this thing is over. And how is the "flash-sideways" going to connect with the events on the island?

And by the way, whoever came up with the idea of airing the final episode on a Sunday . . . GENIUS!!

[erich]

This has been widely reported elsewhere (including by our own Brett in the comments of my latest TVV write-up), but the LOST series finale has been expanded to a whopping two and a half hours! Fingers crossed that doesn't just mean more commercial breaks.

[Selk]

Fingers crossed that doesn't just mean more commercial breaks.

Or any more red herrings.

[HGervais]

Well, that's strange even by Lost standards.

[erich]

Whether you loved it or hated it, "Across the Sea" happened last night and my write-up has been posted over at TV Verdict.

[molly1216]

well, i liked it.
i would like the series better if things end up making sense...but i really don't think it will.
i do think they are going to leave us holding the bag, screaming at the tv set.

I am trying to think of a series finale that was actually satisfying and i have to go all the way back to MASH.

(btw am i the only person who thinks Titus Welliver needs to be a lead? he's always being cast in wonderful supporting roles, i.e. deadwood, etc... but you never get enough of him. )

[HGervais]

Talk about a love it or hate it with very little middle ground kind of episode. I kind of loved it with my only real complaint being I think it should have occured earlier this season.

[erich]

Talk about a love it or hate it with very little middle ground kind of episode. I kind of loved it with my only real complaint being I think it should have occured earlier this season.

You have no idea how happy I am to hear someone else say they liked the episode. I'm flapping in the wind over in the TV Verdict comment thread.

[Boba Fett]

(btw am i the only person who thinks Titus Welliver needs to be a lead? he's always being cast in wonderful supporting roles, i.e. deadwood, etc... but you never get enough of him. )

His acting really exposed how week Allison Janney and Mark Pellegrino were. Unless we're to now infer that Jacob is a little bit, "special needs," Pellegrino was a bad casting choice.

[BrettCullum]

I fall in the "hated it" category. I found the latest episode to be stiff, trite, cliche, and looked like a bad LAND OF THE LOST production. That little golden cave just begged for Marsall, Will, and Holly to come out! They should combine the show with V and then the alien invasion can be Sleestaks!

Do think Titus Welliver deserves a lead though! He is always excellent. I think Janney and Pellegrino just have the misfortune of being hit by a big bus that was that script and the worst episode of LOST in maybe all six years. I mean I would rather watch Jack bang that tattoo artist again! Or an entire episode of Nikki and Paulo!

Let's hope they actually wrap it all up with some shred of dignity left. Otherwise I am going to pretend I ever watched the thing. What a shame for a show that I thought was TWIN PEAKS level of good at one point.

[Selk]

Season runner-up of Lost was, I thought, yet another bucket of red herrings and I have a feeling that when the final episode is over on Sunday, that won't have changed.

[HGervais]

What a great episode of Lost. What a great episode for almost every character but especially for Ben Linus, Desmond Hume and Jack Sheppard.