The Jury Room

by **JD_heathers** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:04 pm

Hey so what is everyoone watching?

by **HGervais** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:09 pm

Fringe-B+
Heroes-D...I'm done.
Pushing Daisies-A
Chuck-B+
Little Britain-USA-B-
Boston Legal-B

by **molly1216** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:46 pm

nearly all on the internet, unless i can remember when they are on tv.
House B+
Fringe B-
Bones A-
Heroes C- but i am losing interest really fast
NCIS - B
Supernatural A

by **cdouglas** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:28 pm

I'm DVRing everything I'm keeping up with, so sometimes I'm a couple days late catching up, but I'm watching...

Heroes: Kind of in a rough spot, but I'm sticking with it. For now, C.
Pushing Daisies: A
Dirty Sexy Money: B
The Office: B
30 Rock: A
The Simpsons: B

I watched the "Fringe" pilot, but decided to quit after that.

by **HGervais** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:39 pm

molly1216 wrote:Supernatural A

I second that one. Solid start for the new season and I like how they got Dean out of the fiery pit. I really think that Jensen Ackles would make a helluva a Steve Rogers in the Captain America movie.

by **J.M. Vargas** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:56 pm

COPS: same ol' redneck-chasing, macho-posturing cinema verite show, but now in shiny high-definition! Yay. C+
True Blood: twisted and f***ed-up modern day fairytale-as-metaphor psycho-sexual vampire fantasy/drama that doesn't make much sense. I can't wait to watch how the relationship between Sookie and Bill evolves, and the supporting cast of friends/foes is killer. B+
Deal Or No Deal: the syndicated half-hour version of this NBC show moves lightning-fast (unlike the dreadfully slow network version) and having the contestants double as the case-opening models is a stroke of genius. I'm addicted all over again! B+
Heroes: 'Mohinderfly' is losing me but it's still a fun show to watch. Like "Prison Break" though it's beginning to lose it's way and becoming a can't-look-away trainwreck. C+
Law & Order: Special Victims Unit: still holding strong but they're clearly running out of stories and raging inner conflicts for Stabler and Benson to go thorugh. The show lives and dies by the guest-stars it attracts though, and last night's episode with Tom Noonan was awesome because of him. B
The Rachel Maddow Show: finally, a liberal news show with a playful sense of humor minus the condescending Keith Olberman attitude. B+
The Price Is Right: the switch to high-definition and Drew Carey growing comfortable as host make this appointment TV for old-school gameshow fans. B+
Extreme Makeover: Home Edition: getting tired and repetitive (which it's always been) but still a nice tear-jerker during the last half-hour reveal. C+
Amazing Race: still the best reality show around. The weakest couple already lost and there's plenty of cool and nasty contestants to follow. All hail the Phil's eyebrow raise! Now how about some high-definition cameras for next season? A-
Real Time with Bill Maher: Bill is on fire thanks to the GOP offering him self-mocking material by the barrelful. Last week's 'New Rule' about how hard white people have it in this election set a new high mark for pure awesome! A-
Dexter: disappointing season premiere (compared with the pure awesomeness of the first two seasons) but it opens intriguing story possibilities. B

Couldn't make it past the first half-hour of "Fringe." I'd rather re-watch the better "X-Files" episodes from my Box Sets.

by **molly1216** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:27 am

HGervais wrote:
molly1216 wrote:Supernatural A

I second that one. Solid start for the new season and I like how they got Dean out of the fiery pit. I really think that Jensen Ackles would make a helluva a Steve Rogers in the Captain America movie.

Oh Man you slay me, that would be wicked righteous. Ackles has a great persona, and can go from seriously tormented to light and goofy in a nanosecond. The character interplay is one of the appeals of this show - all the ghost stories have been done elsewhere, but these guys make it fresh and funny everytime. sometimes i don't miss buffy.

by **BrettCullum** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:58 am

For me the line up is:

HEROES - but like everyone else, I am starting not to care. In fact I still have the last two weeks sitting unwatched on my DVR.
PUSHING DAISIES - cute. lovable.
DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES - yeah, yeah! Make fun of me, but they started with a five year time jump and a really creepy new husband or two. It has the best cast on TV.
LIFE ON MARS - I know, inferior remake of a BBC sensation. But count me in!
Dancing With the Stars - it's the most watched show on television. I'm so ashamed.

by **Gobear** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:20 am

Fringe-Bad writing, worse acting. I tried it, and I'm done. F
Heroes--Hey, you were supposed to remove the suck factor, not compound it! F
True Blood--I was already a fan of the series before the HBO show, so I'm really enjoying seeing how the books translate to TV. I like how the writers have fleshed out Bill, changing a cipher with zero personality in the books into a man of mystery on the show. And the mancandy is through the roof! A
Little Britain USA--The new characters don't work as well as the old ones, except for the crazy lady with the dog, which is gold, but the show still manages to make me snerk. B+
House--The show's formula is getting stale, although I likethe private detective filling in as a Wilson substitute minus Wilson's passive-aggressive tendencies C
South Park--Last night's episode was hilarious--Racist cartman exploiting Butters, plus the raping Indian Jones B plot were awesome. A
My Name Is Earl--Still great A
The Office--amazongly, the show's quality has not diminished. A
Supernatural--I'm not loving the douchy angel angle. B

by **molly1216** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:57 pm

Gobear wrote:Fringe-Bad writing, worse acting. I tried it, and I'm done. F
Supernatural--I'm not loving the douchy angel angle. B

can i change my vote, Fringe is kinda of a C-, i know i watched a few episodes but for the life of me I can't remember them at all.

As far as the angel in Supernatural...i'm hoping it's a killer angel.

i really wanted to like Life on Mars...but what i really liked was the soundtrack..some of those songs i haven't heard since 1973.

i think i am gonna stop trying to find new shows...and wait to see what ends up on dvd.

by **HGervais** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:02 am

I loved the real version of Life on Mars....Loved!!!!.....so far, I kinda maybe sorta like the US remake...Harvey Keitell is too old by at least 20 years for Gene Hunt. The previously cast Colm Meaney seemed the better choice. If Hunt really is God, as has been writtien about extensively on some fan boards in the UK, we never get that impression thus far. I will give it another couple of weeks to see if it becomes it's own show intsead of the pale copy of the superior father show. If you are region free, give Life On Mars a spin. It exceeds in every departmant except not having Gretchen Mol running around. Solid B- one entry in.

by **jcankerhuxley** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:14 pm

South Park--Last night's episode was hilarious--Racist cartman exploiting Butters, plus the raping Indian Jones B plot were awesome. A

More like A+ Gobear. Just the image of George Lucas graphically raping Indy (a la "The Accused") on a Howard the Duck pinball machine is a statement that South Park is alive and well. This one is right up there with "Cartoon Wars." I have to laugh when some of the online criticism of this episode was "gee, why not do this episode when Indy 4 was released"

Meanwhile the same drooling, idiots of the extra-chromosone set were all excited about the most recent episode of Family Guy. I had the misfortune of seeing this and, oh geez, was this bad. This is the one that Peter gets a copy of the Trashmen's "Surfin' Bird" and the writers spend half the show milking this concept for jokes. Then Jesus returns (how original) in a really lame ending to the episode. I am a big fan of garage bands and SB use to be a favorite. I think I have now lost that song forever.

I usually rag on Family Guy, but I will say one nice positive thing. Family Guy has made its money basically ripping off the plots from The Simpsons seasons 3 to 5. Well, they have appeared to have moved on, and now are ripping plot ideas from seasons 1 and 2 of South Park. Good for them. But if I have one more moron come up to me and ask me "What bird is" I will go freaking postal.

by **Chinese Jet Pilot** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:42 am

Too busy to watch tv. I was posting weekly about House last season, but have not got any interest this year. The only show I am watching is season 4 of Doctor Who on CBC. I will probably watch South Park new season when I get the chance on the internet or reruns. That is all I care about, just kind of busy.

by **HGervais** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:26 pm

Caught up with last week's Chuck....which if I had to pick just one show a week to watch, Chuck would probably be it and the past two weeks worth of Supernatural.....I don't know...the angel thing doesn't really bother me and it offers Dean a counterpoint to Sam's relationship with Ruby...it also manages to bring the show around to it's past while still moving forward. I'm kinda liking it.

by **J.M. Vargas** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:36 pm

The final 10 episodes of "Battlestar Galactica" start airing on Sci-Fi January 16th of '09: http://www.boston.com/ae/tv/blog/2008/10/its_officially.html. Set those DVR's!

by **sneakers** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:51 pm

Life on Mars is pretty good and Lisa Bonet is in it.

http://www.dvdspot.com/member=PaulKile · by **Paul Kile** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:54 pm

Mad Men - started watching it this year and rented last season on Netflix to catch up.
I respect how the producer and prop folks have tried to stay true to the period. I only found two glitches so far, IBM Selectric typewriters in 1960 (didn't come out until 1961) and the song "Sukiyaki" played in a Japanese restaurant in 1962 (wasn't released in the US unti 1963).

This show may not resonate with all you young guys, but it sure brings back memories for me!

by **molly1216** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:56 pm

Paul Kile wrote:Mad Men - started watching it this year and rented last season on Netflix to catch up.
I respect how the producer and prop folks have tried to stay true to the period. I only found two glitches so far, IBM Selectric typewriters in 1960 (didn't come out until 1961) and the song "Sukiyaki" played in a Japanese restaurant in 1962 (wasn't released in the US unti 1963).

This show may not resonate with all you young guys, but it sure brings back memories for me!

it brings back some memories for me...and i can't stand the show.
i got the tail end of the era of institutionalized sexism...it just makes me resentful.
perhaps i will like Madmen years down the line when i rediscover it.
early on, i missed out on a lot of opportunities because i wasn't born with a penis.

by **molly1216** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:36 am

Life - which i am really enjoying...B+

by **barnaclelapse** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:54 pm

I'm really bad at keeping up with TV shows.

I seem to do better just renting/buying box sets.

I'm planning at some point soon to get Back To You, season two of The Sopranos and season one of House.

Just as soon as I buy a new Godfather box set, since someone stole the one I already have.

by **J.M. Vargas** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:42 am

molly1216 wrote:Life - which i am really enjoying...B+

Season 1 (Box Set) or Season 2? If it's the former then hop over to hulu.com or nbc.com to catch Season 2 episodes aired to date (about 4 I think) before the show gets canceled, which is very likely given the low ratings it's getting Friday nights at 10PM (a death watch time slot). Why this show isn't on USA Network paired with "Psych," "Burn Notice" or even "Monk" is beyond me. "Life" is too quirky for NBC.

barnaclelapse wrote:Just as soon as I buy a new Godfather box set, since someone stole the one I already have.

That sucks! How did it happen? :shock:

by **molly1216** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:54 am

J.M. Vargas wrote:
molly1216 wrote:Life - which i am really enjoying...B+

Season 1 (Box Set) or Season 2? If it's the former then hop over to hulu.com or nbc.com to catch Season 2 episodes aired to date (about 4 I think) before the show gets canceled, which is very likely given the low ratings it's getting Friday nights at 10PM (a death watch time slot). Why this show isn't on USA Network paired with "Psych," "Burn Notice" or even "Monk" is beyond me. "Life" is too quirky for NBC.

Hulu has season one complete and season two which is up to 5. well worth watching... hope it makes it to the end of the year.

http://www.dvdspot.com/member=PaulKile · by **Paul Kile** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:34 am

molly1216 wrote:it brings back some memories for me...and i can't stand the show.
i got the tail end of the era of institutionalized sexism...it just makes me resentful.
perhaps i will like Madmen years down the line when i rediscover it.
early on, i missed out on a lot of opportunities because i wasn't born with a penis.

Funny you mention this, when we first started to watch the show, my wife was continually griping about how the women were being portrayed. It's the same problem she has when she watches just about any movie made before the 1970's. I tried to tell her that she should be happy about how far women have come since those days, but she still yelled at the screen. It's like she has trouble dissociating the past from the present.
But an interesting thing has happened with Mad Men. She now likes to watch the show, because of its soap operatic and stylistic elements. She still complains about what a sleazeball Draper is, but she looks forward to it each week.

by **molly1216** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:25 am

Paul Kile wrote:
molly1216 wrote:it brings back some memories for me...and i can't stand the show.
i got the tail end of the era of institutionalized sexism...it just makes me resentful.
perhaps i will like Madmen years down the line when i rediscover it.
early on, i missed out on a lot of opportunities because i wasn't born with a penis.

Funny you mention this, when we first started to watch the show, my wife was continually griping about how the women were being portrayed. It's the same problem she has when she watches just about any movie made before the 1970's. I tried to tell her that she should be happy about how far women have come since those days, but she still yelled at the screen. It's like she has trouble dissociating the past from the present.
But an interesting thing has happened with Mad Men. She now likes to watch the show, because of its soap operatic and stylistic elements. She still complains about what a sleazeball Draper is, but she looks forward to it each week.

perhaps i will like it eventually...i had a hard time with Deadwood as well.

it's not like anyone promised us 40 acres and a mule to make up for all those years of second class citizenship.
no one has issued any official apologies..women's blouses still cost more to dry clean than man's shirts - the world just goes on pretending objects in the mirror aren't closer than they appear. guys it was kinda awful, show me Draper being tortured by a bunch of women in high heels dug into his vitals and i will watch.

by **Chris_Sax** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:55 pm

You owed us for the rib.

http://www.dvdspot.com/member=PaulKile · by **Paul Kile** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:26 pm

A little off-topic, but given Molly's views on Mad Men, I can't resist recounting a little piece of sexist history. In April of 1953, United Air Lines inaugurated "The Executive", a men-only flight between Chicago and New York. These trips were originally flown with DC-6B or Convair 340 propliners, and featured steak dinners, free cigars, business publications (also Playboy), and the most attractive stewardesses on the line. Each passenger received a little something at the end of the flight (wine glasses, toilet kits, make-up sets) to take back to the "little woman" as an appeasement gift.
In 1961, United replaced the propliners with the French Sud-Est Caravelle VIR , a lovely little jet. The Executive flights continued as before, but in keeping with the French theme, the stewardesses would get into little French maid outfits after takeoff. United ended their Executive flights in 1970.
And before you jump down my throat for being a sexist porcine, and Dunny jumps down my throat for being an aviation elitist, I must say that I was too young to ever partake of these aerial man-caves. My Dad however, had to fly these trips back in the Convair days, and he said they were AWFUL. His main gripe (being a non-smoker) was that the cockpit reeked of cigar smoke!

by **HGervais** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:08 pm

New Sarah Jane Adventures, which I'm finding to be a totally confident show at the moment moving from strength to strength. Next was Chuck 02/04...."Chuck versus the Cougars" aka the secret origin of Sarah Walker. After last week's episode which felt a touch forced the show bounces back with another really strong entry. The show mixes humor and action with seamless ease. Easily my favorite thing on TV right now.

by **J.M. Vargas** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:11 pm

Showtime renews "Dexter" (currently airing it's 3rd season) for two more 12-episode seasons: http://www.broadcastingcable.com/index.asp?layout=articlePrint&articleID=CA6607187. HOORAY!!! :mrgreen:

by **JD_heathers** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:32 am

90210.... Utter trash just watched the pilot and I couldn't stop laughing. Might stay tuned but its defo not on my must see list C-

Gossip Girl..... Actually very smart and funny. Josh Schwartz knows how to make good teen TV. B+

Privileged.... Pilot was ok but don't think there is enough there to make me want to come back week after week. Nice to see Anne Archer back on screen. B-

True Blood.... I love this show! Alan Ball is a genius! Easily the best thing to come out this fall season. Really gory and sexy, does anyone else think Ball is using vampires as a metaphor for gays? A+

Desperate Housewives.... Five years forward has done the show the world of good. B+

Brothers and Sisters.... Rich people with no real problems what could be better! B

Dirty sexy Money.... It’s all about the Sutherland! Preferred him on Commander in Chief but as long as he's on prime time every week I’m happy! B-

Ugly Betty... Nice to see them filming in New York. B

by **molly1216** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:57 pm

so i am down to just a few shows

House still good, his attraction to Cuddy has always been clear, here's hoping something good comes out of this plotline.
Supernatural remarkably which is still great
NCIS - candy confection for the head
bones - i miss zack, and i seriously don't like angela and hodgins broken up...
Life - i am REALLY liking this i hope it doesn't go away

and quite often i watch Fringe...not because i like it in it's entirety
i find all the plots recycled from Xfiles and all the other science fiction i have ever seen.
but i am entertained by Walter and Peter, the rest of the show is just dead weight.

by **J.M. Vargas** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:48 am

NBC cancels "My Own Worst Enemy" (sorry Slater) and "Lipstick Jungle": http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/television/news/e3i85a08b80d9eabe0946660a02edbfee8f. Also, despite being renewed for the rest of the season, the new "Knight Rider" reached record-low viewership last night against the Country Music Awards on ABC. NBC just can't catch a break, although "Life" and "Law & Order" are struggling to remain competitive on Wednesdays.

Sci-Fi also renewed "Sanctuary" for a 2nd 13-episode season (for 2009) and The CW ordered additional episodes of "Privileged" (though a season renewal hasn't been announced yet).

by **HGervais** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:53 pm

"Chuck versus the Fat Lady".....if you aren't watching Chuck....catch up. Hands down my favorite TV show. Dare I say I'm invested in these characters in a way that I have not been since the glory days of Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Funny, exciting, heart-breaking TV.

by **BrettCullum** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:11 am

Is anyone still out there watching HEROES? Just curious...

by **cdouglas** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:13 am

BrettCullum wrote:Is anyone still out there watching HEROES? Just curious...

I quit after the first few episodes. I just didn't feel up to sitting through it anymore. Maybe I'll give it another shot on DVD/Blu-ray. Not even the addition of my man Robert Forster could convince me to stick around.

by **cdouglas** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:16 am

HGervais wrote:"Chuck versus the Fat Lady".....if you aren't watching Chuck....catch up. Hands down my favorite TV show. Dare I say I'm invested in these characters in a way that I have not been since the glory days of Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Funny, exciting, heart-breaking TV.

Chuck question for you, HGervais... is it worth checking out even if I didn't like the first two or three episodes? Does it change much or get better? Because honestly, the pilot and the next episode or two just did absolutely nothing for me. I heard lots of praise for it, but I just couldn't get into it. I was also watching Reaper at the time, which was doing pretty similar stuff in a more interesting way.

by **HGervais** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:34 am

cdouglas wrote:Chuck question for you, HGervais... is it worth checking out even if I didn't like the first two or three episodes? Does it change much or get better? Because honestly, the pilot and the next episode or two just did absolutely nothing for me. I heard lots of praise for it, but I just couldn't get into it. I was also watching Reaper at the time, which was doing pretty similar stuff in a more interesting way.

Yeah the pilot did come across as a little clunky and like most shows it took 4 or 5 episodes for it to find the right balance & tone but it really works for me. The addition of Arrested Development's Tony Hale to the cast has really picked up the Buy More sections of the show. I guess if you didn't like the vibe of the first 3 or 4 shows you might not dig it now but I can say that vibe/attitude is executed really well at this point.

by **BrettCullum** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:53 am

cdouglas wrote:
BrettCullum wrote:Is anyone still out there watching HEROES? Just curious...

I quit after the first few episodes. I just didn't feel up to sitting through it anymore. Maybe I'll give it another shot on DVD/Blu-ray. Not even the addition of my man Robert Forster could convince me to stick around.

Forster is good as the grand leader of the villians, but certainly the show is taking some strange continuity defying turns. But to me even the first season was a touch silly, so I am having a hard time figuring out why the fanbase for the show is fleeing faster than rats out of a sinking ship.

by **cdouglas** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:39 pm

BrettCullum wrote:
cdouglas wrote:
BrettCullum wrote:Is anyone still out there watching HEROES? Just curious...

I quit after the first few episodes. I just didn't feel up to sitting through it anymore. Maybe I'll give it another shot on DVD/Blu-ray. Not even the addition of my man Robert Forster could convince me to stick around.

Forster is good as the grand leader of the villians, but certainly the show is taking some strange continuity defying turns. But to me even the first season was a touch silly, so I am having a hard time figuring out why the fanbase for the show is fleeing faster than rats out of a sinking ship.

It's not the "silliness" that bugs me so much... well, not exactly. Though the first season got pretty wild and crazy, there was at least some measure of restraint and modulation. In this third season... there were so many crazy things and ridiculous plot twists being thrown out at such a rapid rate. I wasn't given time to accept one insane new thing before the next one was tossed at me. It felt like the show was trying to overcompensate for the lack of progression that people complained about in season two.

by **BrettCullum** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:02 pm

Yeah, I am not sure how long I can hang with the HEROES train either. My biggest beef is they have had a lot of ret con issues lately - Sylar being redeemed chief among the most hideous developments. But I am still trudging along with the show. I guess once I start it is hard to give up.

Hmmmm!

by **Jim_Thomas** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:19 pm

HGervais wrote:
cdouglas wrote:Chuck question for you, HGervais... is it worth checking out even if I didn't like the first two or three episodes? Does it change much or get better? Because honestly, the pilot and the next episode or two just did absolutely nothing for me. I heard lots of praise for it, but I just couldn't get into it. I was also watching Reaper at the time, which was doing pretty similar stuff in a more interesting way.

Yeah the pilot did come across as a little clunky and like most shows it took 4 or 5 episodes for it to find the right balance & tone but it really works for me. The addition of Arrested Development's Tony Hale to the cast has really picked up the Buy More sections of the show. I guess if you didn't like the vibe of the first 3 or 4 shows you might not dig it now but I can say that vibe/attitude is executed really well at this point.

What he said.

by **cdouglas** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:31 am

Well, I might as well give Chuck another shot. I'm going to have more time soon. Two of my favorite shows have just been dropped by ABC! Sadly, the sublime Pushing Daisies will be through after thirteen episodes, and the addictive Dirty Sexy Money will also be dropped after thirteen episodes. Damn. There goes my weekly diet of Wednesday night entertainment on ABC. Oh, and Eli Stone is also gone, so my condolences to fans of that show (I never really saw much of it).

by **molly1216** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:59 am

keeping up with the basics...

is ANYONE else watching LIFE?
it's actually a smart comedy disguised as a traditional cop/detective show.
there was a scene in the last one that had me rolling on the floor i had to watch it twice.
sometimes a guy can't get a break...he's got 3 naked cop groupies in the pool and of course he's called out to solve the crime at that moment. well that's part of the funny part they have things cross edited to be even funnier.

dear tv deities..please let it make it to the end of the season.

by **J.M. Vargas** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:33 am

cdouglas wrote:
BrettCullum wrote:Is anyone still out there watching HEROES? Just curious...

I quit after the first few episodes. I just didn't feel up to sitting through it anymore. Maybe I'll give it another shot on DVD/Blu-ray. Not even the addition of my man Robert Forster could convince me to stick around.

I don't know what it says about my standards but I'm not only still watching "Heroes" but enjoying it immensely. It's a huge mess (Mohinder's sudden change of personality and ongoing story being the biggest offenders) but, in it's own twisted way, that's what has become appealing about it: the fact that nobody is acting at all like they were established in previous episodes. You just never know what you're going to get from this show, not only from episode to episode but from one segment to the next in-between the commercials. There are extremely cool moments here and there, but also some jaw-dropping stupidity (like last week's plan by Claire for her and Peter to escape from the bad guys...WTF??!!). Buried underneath all the creative rubble there's still a comic book show worth watching though, and so far nothing has been so horrible to compel me to stop watching (although Hiro's 'regression' from the last episode might do the trick if mishandled). And it has become an additional source of amusement to read raging fanboys online bitching how "Heroes" sucks and what not, yet week after week they keep coming back so they can bitch about it more (although fewer and fewer are coming back each passing week if the Nielsen ratings are accurate). Then again, I have a DVR and the new "Heroes" episodes sometimes sit there for days until I'm the mood for it. It's no longer appointment TV which is bad news for NBC.

This past weekend "Heroes" creator Tim Kring attended a writing seminar (which he was scheduled to attend with the two "Heroes" writers/producers that were fired by NBC the week before) and talked rather candidly about the show's creative process. If you've got a few minutes this recap of what he said is a must read because it underscores why "Heroes" has become such a flawed show: http://tv.ign.com/articles/931/931067p1.html. Kring sounds like a nice guy but he is clearly in way over his head and pushing forward something (a serialized show) far removed from his original vision (an episodic anthology format) because of money/network pressures when the show's first season became an unexpected hit.

by **BrettCullum** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:14 am

Thanks JM Vargas for posting that IGN article about HEROES, it makes a lot of sense to read what challenges Kring has faced. I know he wanted to do several things that the network resisted... like a complete cast change for season two, the ORIGINS show which would just be anthology based, and several different directions that would have made the show more revolutionary and less predictable. There seemed to be a struggle with a network who wanted another LOST type serialized drama with continuing mysteries, and a man who was more obsessed with the idea of new people coming onboard constantly finding out they are heroes.

It's sad to realize the first season was the most well planned, and the one that stuck the most to the original vision (although fans will note the DVD includes and alternate pilot with a totally different subplot in there). I think the essence of the dilemma is - they are struggling with being painted in to a corner by having to write for characters that initially only were supposed to last one season.

It seems like you need to get rid of the problems like no more time travel, no more healing powers, and no more characters who can collect powers and become too strong too fast.

All that said I do agree with you that as messy as it is I am still watching. I seem to enjoy the torture of watching them wriggle through this pulpy mess. It's a comic book series to be sure. Not a graphic novel, but an old school serialized comic from back in the day.

Although I must note that comics usually had better senses of continuity than what these guys have. They need to stop using so many writers who have not made notes about the show's previous episodes.

by **HGervais** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:09 pm

One note of hope for Heroes is that Pushing Daisies creator Bryan Fuller has said if that show were axed by ABC he more than likely return to Heroes. So there is that. I watched the first episode of season three and thought it was barely okay. The rest of the season is sitting on my DVR much like the first half of season one sat on my DVR until I felt like a marathon day. I keep meaning to cancel the season pass but keep on saving the episodes.

by **J.M. Vargas** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:49 pm

I can't speak for BrettCullum but I'd honestly suggest you watch the "Heroes" episodes in your DVR (as many as you can stand anyway! :roll:

) and not delete them without at least trying. We're not making apologies or claiming the show is perfect (it's deeply flawed and not living to it's potential) but, in it's own twisted way, the show is a fun little time waster in which you get a little bit of everything: jaw-dropping cliffhangers (at least three!), plot holes galore, improved SFX (each episode costs $4 million for a reason), stupefying 180 degree personality changes from well-established characters (you've already seen this with Maya, Nathan and Mohinder in the first episode) and a healthy dose of honest-to-goodness attempts (some good, others terrible) at telling an epic comic book story in a serialized manner. I guess I'm saying give "Heroes" a chance before you hit the delete button for good.

And HGervais, this NY Times story from Nov. 10th shows that even if Fuller came onboard (which he's free to do now that "Pushing Daisies" is all but confirmed dead) his input cannot come soon enough to guide "Heroes" out of it's present creative/ratings funk: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/10/arts/television/10hero.html?_r=1&ref=television&oref=slogin

With ratings for “Heroes” down 20 percent from those of a year ago and regular third-place finishes in total viewers for its time slot, NBC took action last week, midway into the show’s third season. Two co-executive producers were fired: Jeph Loeb and Jesse Alexander, who also served as senior writers and oversaw much of the script development.

But questions remain about whether the series can be revived. Writers are already working on the 20th of a planned 25 episodes this season, meaning any changes produced by the firings are unlikely to be seen on the air before May. By that time viewership could well erode further from the estimated 8.3 million people who watched recent episodes at its regular time, Monday nights at 9.

An NBC executive said that there was no immediate plan to replace the fired writers. Two experienced television writers were already added this season — Rob Fresco, who worked on “Crossing Jordan” with Mr. Kring, and Mark Verheiden, who most recently worked on the fan favorite “Battlestar Galactica.”

Yet on Friday, Entertainment Weekly also reported that Bryan Fuller, one of the lead writers in the first season of “Heroes” who left to create “Pushing Daisies” for ABC, is considering a return to “Heroes” if ABC fails to extend “Pushing Daisies” beyond the 13 episodes it has ordered for this season.

Mr. Fuller is known to be close to Katherine Pope, president of NBC Universal’s television studio, who also counts Mr. Kring as a friend. Mr. Fuller’s agent, Ari Greenberg of the Endeavor agency, said on Friday that there had been no negotiations about Mr. Fuller returning to “Heroes.”

************************************************

... an alarming sign because the series is among the most expensive to produce, costing more than $4 million an episode. NBC, like most television studios, has recently asked its producers to rein in costs.

One bright spot, NBC executives say, is that while only about 8.3 million viewers have watched the show during its regular time slot, nearly 2 million more record and watch it within a week, according to Nielsen. That is one of the highest rates of DVR viewership gain among all shows on television. The show also is among the most-viewed online on NBC.com and Hulu.com, the site owned by NBC Universal and the News Corporation, parent company of the Fox network.

The show might, in a sense, attract too many young viewers, those least likely to watch the series when it is broadcast and therefore more likely to skip the commercials that pay for the production.

by **BenShultz** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:16 pm

Was anyone else disappointed with last night's Office? I think they made a huge mistake in bringing Toby back, as it seems to me that they've already milked that character for all he's worth. Plus, he brings out the worst in Michael, and I thought the show was doing just fine without Michael's nasty side. And are we supposed to believe that Toby has such a miserable life that the only job he can get is one with a boss who has a completely irrational, borderline psychotic hatred of him?

by **HGervais** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:44 am

"Chuck versus the Graviton".....broken record time....yet another Chuck, yet another good time. The show does a great job of balancing the funnies with the action and having one feed into the other. Chuck's sister gets her first slo-mo sequence and it involves turkey. Release the Casey! Big Mike enters the fray. Next week.....The Awesome family.

by **molly1216** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:58 pm

ALAN SHORE MARRIED DENNY CRANE!!!!!!! holy shit!

sorry i hadn't realized the previous comment COULD be consider a spoiler

by **molly1216** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:47 pm

has anyone else caught Leverage?.... i liked the pilot...i was mostly watching because i really missed Christian kane.
but i was pleasantly surprised the show is playful and shiny and has a Mission Impossible lack of logic to it.

I will keep watching, it has been a long time since something amused me.

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