Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

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Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:01 pm

New promo picture. New baddie visible. New companion still smoking hot. Newish looking time vortex. New episodes coming soon. Discus.

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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby the5thghostbuster » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:05 pm

Awsome, awsome, awsome, awsome, awsome, awsome, awsome. Long may the eleventh Doctor reign!!
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby Michael Stailey » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:28 am

More Daleks? Is there some kind of mandatory appearance of them and the Cybermen each series?
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby mkiker2089 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:13 am

So what do i need to see before this? I get confused not having BBC and having to netflix it. I've seen the one where he (other doctor) goes to Mars and one where he goes to a dessert planet. What's in between? Have they shown the regeneration yet?
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:42 am

Michael Stailey wrote:More Daleks? Is there some kind of mandatory appearance of them and the Cybermen each series?

I think from the BBC's point of view, yes. Reports are that the Dalek episode is very early in the run so they can get them out of the way. Of course my interest is caught because Mark Gatiss wrote the episode and it takes place in a really interesting time period.
mkiker2089 wrote:So what do i need to see before this? I get confused not having BBC and having to netflix it. I've seen the one where he (other doctor) goes to Mars and one where he goes to a dessert planet. What's in between? Have they shown the regeneration yet?

Yes the regeneration has occured. It was in the two-part special, The End of Time. BBC America ran it a couple of months ago. New episodes start running in the UK sometime spring, probably early April.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:04 am

Random notes, it appears that a new Who trailer will be broadcast this weekend in the UK, and in 3D in cinemas, which leads a lot of industry watchers over there wondering if we might get series 5 a little earlier than anyone thought. I know they recently wrapped principal photography on the final two episodes of the series.
Also, Neil Gaimen has confirmed he has written an episode for early in series 6 and Mathew Graham of Life on Mars & Ashes to Ashes has also announced he is writing a series 6 episode as well. Oh and Stephen Fry has been talking a bit like his much discussed, long awaited episode might well occur for this new Doctor...so mark him down as a series 6 maybe.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:44 pm

New trailer for the first series featuring Matt Smith. Coming this Easter.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby the5thghostbuster » Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:54 pm

HGervais wrote:New trailer for the first series featuring Matt Smith. Coming this Easter.


Freaking love that trailer. Matt Smith has a very Davison-esque vibe about him.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:39 am

The show is gearing up the publicity wagon and we have a couple of new trailers.

The BBC America trailer and the trailer airing on

BBC 1.

I am so pumped for this.

Oh and how about the little Union Jack on the Dalak in the BBC trailer?
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby Steve T Power » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:47 am

I bailed on the previous series pretty quickly... is this being considered a relaunch again? Or a continuation of the Eccleston/Tennant Whos.

Either way, it looks pretty awesome.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:58 am

Steve T Power wrote:I bailed on the previous series pretty quickly... is this being considered a relaunch again? Or a continuation of the Eccleston/Tennant Whos.

Either way, it looks pretty awesome.

Not really a relaunch. Smith is the 11th Doctor but I do think with Moffat we are going to see something of a return to a classical approach to Doctor Who. Moffat has spoken at length of his love for certain periods of the show's history and Smith has said Patrick Troughton is his favorite Doctor...which speaks volumes to me as I hold the same opinion. To bad you bailed. The previous four series and the specials of last year could be something of a mixed bag but generally the high notes far exceeded the low ones. Certainly the episodes written by Steven Moffat were some of the best in the show's 50 year history and Tennant really was a great Doctor.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:25 pm

And honestly, Matt Smith had me when he kissed his knee.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby Steve T Power » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:16 pm

HGervais wrote:
Steve T Power wrote:I bailed on the previous series pretty quickly... is this being considered a relaunch again? Or a continuation of the Eccleston/Tennant Whos.

Either way, it looks pretty awesome.

Not really a relaunch. Smith is the 11th Doctor but I do think with Moffat we are going to see something of a return to a classical approach to Doctor Who. Moffat has spoken at length of his love for certain periods of the show's history and Smith has said Patrick Troughton is his favorite Doctor...which speaks volumes to me as I hold the same opinion. To bad you bailed. The previous four series and the specials of last year could be something of a mixed bag but generally the high notes far exceeded the low ones. Certainly the episodes written by Steven Moffat were some of the best in the show's 50 year history and Tennant really was a great Doctor.


It wasn't because of any lack of interest or dislike, just my usual lack of discipline when it comes to series television. As well as my general lack of energy when it comes to watching the plethora of television that's sitting on my hard drive when i could be doing other things ;)
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby Kenneth Morgan » Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:25 am

It's somewhat short notice, but Whovian in the NYC area might be interested in this: http://www.paleycenter.org/2010-spring-who-s-next-the-new-era-of-doctor-who.

Unfortunately, I can't make it there; I have class that night.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby corkbouy » Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:05 am

UK premiere tonight. I'll post my non-spoilery thoughts after.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:40 pm

The spoiler free version is Matt Smith is everything The Doctor should be. At the risk of gushing let me just say he left me thinking David Who?....sorry..could not resist but really he is that good. He is as assured a Doctor as we have seen since Tom Baker. Amy Pond is also as good a companion as the show has ever introduced with a backstory that gives her instant levels of complexity. Moffat clearly gets what makes the show tick and while he throws a lot of plates in the air the episode never feels crowded and the hour plus running time zips by. It even has some dodgy CGI. Oh and the new TARDIS looks gorgeous. Retro and yet very strange, alien and modern. Welcome back Doctor.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:35 pm

I just watched it again. Liked it even more. It's going to be a fun 12 weeks.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby the5thghostbuster » Sun Apr 04, 2010 2:48 pm

Dear Steven, Matt and Karen: Great work!

That is all!
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby Polynikes » Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:56 pm

I fear I am not as enthusiastic about the first episode of the new Dr Who series as other contributors to this page have been. More importantly, my young children thought it an indifferent start too! It is only the first episode, which without spoiling it, was really setting up the rest of the series by introducing a key character, and getting used to the new Doctor, so there is time to improve. The plot bumbled along OK without being particularly gripping. On a positive note, the Amy Pond character was a welcome breath of fresh air, with the promise of considerable development. The trailer at the end hinted at some interesting episodes to come, too, with a welcome emphasis on characters and storyline. The negative for me, contrary to what others felt, was Matt Smith. Too early to make a judgement on his acting (has he been in anything else?), although in this episode he seemed to me to be trying too hard sometimes to certain speech patterns and mannerisms of David Tennant. The real problem is not Matt Smith's fault, but I find him simply too young to deliver the gravitas which the role of Time Lord requires - he just did not have the presence in this episode, and was lightweight for much of the time. I hope he manages to incorporate what British drama schools call "bottom" into the role (i.e. a bit of heavyweight substance). My children did not like the revamped TARDIS either, but it may be a case of missing the familiar.

So at this very early stage, the school report from my house reads "An average start, but potential for considerable improvement". However, it's all a matter of opinion, and I am sure no one will let my middle aged musings put them off watching!
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:00 pm

Speaking as a 45 year old I like the absent minded professor in a schoolboy's body aspect of it. Smith has that old/young quality about him. Yes he started out with some of Tennant's mannerisms but if you noticed as he settled into his "new" body he started to shift away from the 10 Doctor. Having watched it three times now I feel like I'm watching the same kind of vibe as when Tom Baker took over in other words, Smith is already something special.
As for bumbling along, Moffat had a lot of ground to cover. I will agree the monster part of it is the weakest aspect of the episode but with so much great character work it didn't really bother me. Moffat understands the franchise and there was just much confidence about it that I still have a giddy smile on my face.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby Dark Knight » Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:49 pm

HGervais wrote:The spoiler free version is Matt Smith is everything The Doctor should be. At the risk of gushing let me just say he left me thinking David Who?....sorry..could not resist but really he is that good. He is as assured a Doctor as we have seen since Tom Baker. Amy Pond is also as good a companion as the show has ever introduced with a backstory that gives her instant levels of complexity. Moffat clearly gets what makes the show tick and while he throws a lot of plates in the air the episode never feels crowded and the hour plus running time zips by. It even has some dodgy CGI. Oh and the new TARDIS looks gorgeous. Retro and yet very strange, alien and modern. Welcome back Doctor.

I agree with everything you said here Harold. Loved it! I was not sure about Matt Smith, but now I can't think of anyone else I'd rather se as the new Doctor. I liked how through most of the episode he was "still cooking" and the various emotions he was going through up until he "becomes" the Doctor. And Amy Pond....WOW! Great character and storyline.I also watched and enjoyed the "Doctor Who Confidential" episode for this. Sucks that BBC America doesn't air these. Very insightful and cool to see the behind the scenes and how the actors are in real life.
I can't wait for the next episode!
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:08 pm

I always come back to the greatest strength of the show is its built-in function of regeneration. As people who love & enjoy Doctor Who we are always nervous about a new actor taking over. It's natural to build up the previous Doctor in between the time of the old & the new. I will admit that I was kind of tired of Tennant towards the end or was at least tired of the way he was being written. The whole woe-is-me, self-pity thing just got in the way and sucked a lot of the joy out of the character. Smith has instantly reminded me of what the Doctor is and I keep coming back to Tom Baker's 1st couple of stories. There is such confidence in the storytelling and in the performance that I'm really & truly excited about the show.
I also agree about Doctor Who Confidential. I just finished watching it and for EPG stuff, it's pretty good.
*Edit*
I would also note that I watched it a third time with my 11 year old niece who LOVED the Tennant Doctor and walked into this expecting to hate Matt Smith...she loved it. I asked her afterwards which were her favorite parts and her reply was a simple, "all of it."
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby Polynikes » Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:46 am

One of my children also said that he did not like the changes to the signature tune or the opening titles sequence. What do Dr Who afficionados think?

I will admit that I was kind of tired of Tennant towards the end or was at least tired of the way he was being written. The whole woe-is-me, self-pity thing just got in the way and sucked a lot of the joy out of the character.


I agree with that, and I hope the new production team will refresh the feel of the programme.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby Paul Kile » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:54 am

Polynikes wrote:One of my children also said that he did not like the changes to the signature tune or the opening titles sequence. What do Dr Who afficionados think?


I liked the changes, and it fit well with the revised graphics of the intro as well. I especially enjoyed the Logo shot, and how it morphed back into the Tardis.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby Paul Kile » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:04 am

HGervais wrote:Oh and how about the little Union Jack on the Dalak in the BBC trailer?


I noticed that too, and did you see that Dalek was showing period WWII "non-specular" camo style coloring? That shot was right after the one of London during the Blitz, with all the barrage balloons.

But what has me REALLY jazzed are the quick shots in the Preview (after Episode 1) showing what look like Spitfires engaged in a space battle! Looks like something right out of Harry Turtledove's alternate history.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby Steve T Power » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:34 am

Paul Kile wrote:But what has me REALLY jazzed are the quick shots in the Preview (after Episode 1) showing what look like Spitfires engaged in a space battle!


That is quite possibly the most awesome sentence i have ever read!
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:06 pm

So three episodes in and so far, three winners. The thing which surprises me is how much lower key the new series has been so far. Last night's Dalek episode was a good example. The writing is witty and efficient while Smith continues to channel his inner Patrick Troughton.
So I liked the way Moffat & Gatiss brought the Daleks back and set them up for future use.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:06 pm

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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby Paul Kile » Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:30 am

HGervais wrote:So three episodes in and so far, three winners. The thing which surprises me is how much lower key the new series has been so far. Last night's Dalek episode was a good example. The writing is witty and efficient while Smith continues to channel his inner Patrick Troughton.
So I liked the way Moffat & Gatiss brought the Daleks back and set them up for future use.


Yep, I thoroughly enjoyed that one. It took a bit of suspending disbelief to see the Spitfire squadron in all it's glory, with the "flux capacitor" modification behind the pilot's heads, but it made me smile nonetheless. And the "cabinet war rooms" shots had me fooled - I have visited the war rooms when in London, and I truly thought they filmed the scenes there. If you haven't seen it already, try to find a copy of "Dr. Who Confidential" for this episode - it explains a lot.
Now I just have to keep checking eBay to see when the multicolor Daleks come on sale....I want a blue one.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:01 am

Series 5, episode 4..."The Time Of Angels"....I walked rather guarded on this one for a number of reasons....I didn't want to see The Weeping Angels defanged or explained too much, I didn't want to see River Song explained too much and this was actually the first thing Matt Smith shot as The Doctor. The Angels are not defanged and if this goes the way I think it will they are not explained too much. River Song is still magic although something bigger & darker is hinted at very strongly. Matt Smith walked into this owning the role. If anything his chemistry with Kingston is just a little bit better than was Tennant's. Two other spoiler free thoughts....Amy Pond continues to be not only entertaining but the most resourceful companion we have ever seen. And if the episode "Blink" was a movie, it would be Alien. If "The Time Of Angels" were a movie it would be Aliens. That is all.
Oh and if you want to keep pace with viewers in the UK but you don't want to download anything, try Cast TV.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby Kenneth Morgan » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:13 am

Still haven't seen it. I'll give the above link a shot. Otherwise, I'll just have to wait for the R1 release.

Sight unseen, though, the Dalek story better be good; I'm actually pretty tired of them by now.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:57 pm

Kenneth Morgan wrote:Sight unseen, though, the Dalek story better be good; I'm actually pretty tired of them by now.

I think Moffat is kind of tired of them as well. The episode has kind of a perfuctory feel to it. It's like we have to do a Dalek episode...so here it is. New status quo for the pepperpots and let's move on to the Weeping Angels.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby Paul Kile » Wed May 05, 2010 7:43 pm

(no spoilers) My wife and I just caught Episode 5 and the Dr. Who Confidential afterwards. We had a long talk about what's been bothering us about Series 5 - Moffat hasn't kicked it into gear, he's just coasting along!!! What brought this home were the clips from "Blink", "Silence in the Library", "The Empty Child", and "The Girl in the Fireplace" they showed on Confidential. We realized how GOOD the Moffat episodes were during the Eccleston and Tennant years, and we're just not seeing the same caliber of writing this time around. We also realized why they stuffed this week's Confidential full of past Moffat glories - there wasn't enough meat in Episode 5 to make up a full hour of Confidential. When you strip away the suspense of Amy in the forest, there wasn't a whole lot left. Doctor Who Lite....

This is also the first Doctor Who that we have had to replay scenes just to figure out what Matt Smith and some of the others are saying. We never had to do that with Eccleston or Tennant (or Hartnell or Troughton or Pertwee or the Bakers or Davison for that matter). Ok, I know we are just a couple of 'Murricans watching Brit TV, but the Matt Smith breathless stream of consciousness way of delivery is a little hard to decipher sometimes. Some of this might have to do with the frenetic pace of these episodes. Moffat needs to slow things down a bit and concentrate on fleshing out his stories, like he used to do.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Thu May 06, 2010 12:18 am

Paul...I get your complaints as far as episodes 2 & 3 go. The pace of those episodes don't bother me as much but I get where how a person could feel that way but I don't know how much more action-packed The Weeping Angels two-parter could be. So much stuff happens & so much information is thrown out there that I have had to watch each one three times. As for his dialect...I don't know...maybe its becuase I watch so much UK TV but I have not had those problems at all.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby Paul Kile » Thu May 06, 2010 5:53 am

Harold,
You actually hit the nail on the head when you said the Weeping Angels set was "action-packed". My beef with what Moffat is doing this season is that the action is getting in the way of the story lines. Blink and The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances episodes had much less action, but were rich with good science fiction elements and great scripts. Season 5 feels more like a kiddie show, and yes, I know that was the original intent of Doctor Who. But I miss the cerebral nature of vintage Moffat. I forget action the moment the episode ends, whereas good writing and solid sci-fi elements like time paradoxes, alternate histories, parallel universes stay with me for a long time.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby Polynikes » Sat May 08, 2010 6:17 pm

I have given it five episodes now, which is a reasonable basis for comment. I think the basic plots are good, and the support actors do their jobs well. However, I fear that this only sets in stark contrast Matt Smith's performance. I apologise if this annoys anyone, and I acknowledge that a good deal of critical opinion in the UK is against me, but I think that not only does he look too young for the part, but his acting in the series is generally mediocre, sometimes poor. Someone posted above that he and his wife had to watch scenes more than once in order to make out what Matt Smith was saying, putting it down to being American themselves. Very generous, but that is not the reason; the fact is that Matt Smith does not speak clearly enough, a basic requirement of any actor. I am British and I frequently find it difficult to hear what he is saying. The best British actors spend many years in the theatre, where it is essential to master the art of projecting one's voice and enunciating clearly, even when ostensibly whispering or speaking in a low tone to meet the demands of the plot or characterisation. It then becomes an acting habit in any medium. I don't think Matt Smith, a young actor who took up drama as recently as 2003 and with only a few years theatre work behind him, has had enough experience to have this ingrained in him.

However, to redress the balance, I would say that the bulk of professional reviews I have heard on the radio or read in the press are favourable to Matt Smith. And when all is said and done, it is only a TV programme intended first and foremost for children!
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Sun May 09, 2010 12:19 am

05.06.."Vampires of Venice"....from Toby Whithouse, creator of Being Human and writer of "School Reunion." The thing I'm really enjoying about the new direction is the way they layer on certain expectation in the first act and then completely twist those expectation so they lead the viewer in a totally different outcome then as an audience we were expecting. It's smart and it's challenging. And often funny. Smith continues to grow with each new episode. He brings a confidence & a thirst for knowledge that makes him part Indiana Jones, part Albert Einstein and very much the 2nd Doctor. Amy Pond & the husband-to-be are both very capable and well drawn characters that are well preformed. Sets & costumes were top-notch and this week's CGI were all pretty strong. I like the way Gold is adapting his musical style to give the new Doctor & companion their own musical identity. Oh and six episodes in, no real problem understanding anyone's dialect.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:03 pm

"The Pandorica Opens".....holy crap! I mean really.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby Polynikes » Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:46 pm

I must redress the balance here. Always good to have a range of opinion! Also, please note the following paragraphs may contain spoilers.

I have missed most of this series, but I managed to catch last night's episode (penultimate one of the series). Unfortunately, I found Matt Smith's acting and enunciation to be as grating as ever, in stark contrast with excellent performances from the other members of the cast. (I rather hope Matt Smith really is being locked for ever in the Pandorica, but doubtless all will be well for Dr Who fans). Alex Kingston is a fine actress, and I hope they do not over do her role before it becomes tired.

Just to prove I am a real killjoy, it seems to me that each series now seeks to outdo the last with an ever more spectacular denouement. Whether in this case it is the new team trying to stamp its mark, I do not know, but the effect is the opposite to that intended - so often the case when one attempts to outshine a precedent. In previous series/specials, Davros and the Daleks or Cybermen or the Master have been thwarted inevitably in their quest to dominate the earth/the universe/all universes or even to bring an end to time itself. On this occasion, all the enemies are in alliance to corral the Doctor in a mistaken belief that he is the one who will cause the end of the universe. No doubt yet again the Doctor will save the universe. The trouble is that this kind of storyline is becoming commonplace and loses impact. I seem to recall that in the Troughton/Pertwee era for example, this sort of grandiose finish was not de rigueur. I also think that in the modern incarnation, the better episodes have involved more localised and novel threat (e.g. the library, the Midnight episode or the original weeping angels) where individuals are in danger from something unknown and therefore more frightening. Saving the earth or the universe from time to time is fine; but do it too often and it becomes boring, particularly when it means seeing the same old faces. I half expected the Sontarans and the others to fix a time to meet later down the pub, so familiar they all must be with each other, rather than waste time on what they must know from experience is a futile attempt to defeat the Doctor.

Anyway, I genuinely hope others continue to enjoy this and the next series, whatever I think. It has been favourably received in the reviews I have read or heard.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:39 pm

Matt Smith is easily one of the best Doctors we have seen and Moffat's take on the series has been one of intelligence, grace & humor, sorry, humour. Personally I grew way too tired of RTD's style of almost always going over-the-top and Tennant's Doctor grew far too tiresome in his constant self-pity. Smith brings back the joy of being The Doctor that I associate with the series and the character. Plus, I think Moffat is much more in-tune with the vibe from the original series. Sure it is filtered through today's storytelling techniques & methods but this series has more like "classic" who than almost anything RTD produced. And dude, you are always trying to top yourself and that which came before you. You strive to make your mark and to leave the fans slack-jawed and jumping on the internet or the phone to talk about what went on in that episode with your friends. I don't think you are a killjoy, I just think you are wrong.



One thing I really like is how Moffat has played fair with his big reveal. The clues for this episode have been there since the first episode of the new series. And for a writer that has been as obsessed with perception as Moffat has during his tenure with the series as a whole, "The Pandorica Opens" comes as no surprise.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby the5thghostbuster » Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:23 pm

HGervais wrote:Matt Smith is easily one of the best Doctors we have seen and Moffat's take on the series has been one of intelligence, grace & humor, sorry, humour. Personally I grew way too tired of RTD's style of almost always going over-the-top and Tennant's Doctor grew far too tiresome in his constant self-pity. Smith brings back the joy of being The Doctor that I associate with the series and the character. Plus, I think Moffat is much more in-tune with the vibe from the original series. Sure it is filtered through today's storytelling techniques & methods but this series has more like "classic" who than almost anything RTD produced. And dude, you are always trying to top yourself and that which came before you. You strive to make your mark and to leave the fans slack-jawed and jumping on the internet or the phone to talk about what went on in that episode with your friends. I don't think you are a killjoy, I just think you are wrong.



One thing I really like is how Moffat has played fair with his big reveal. The clues for this episode have been there since the first episode of the new series. And for a writer that has been as obsessed with perception as Moffat has during his tenure with the series as a whole, "The Pandorica Opens" comes as no surprise.


I was going to write something, but this is better than anything I could have said :)
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:31 am

"The Big Bang" = pretty great TV. Smith owns the role now and Moffat has crafted what is far and away the most consistent and rewarding series since the show returned.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby Polynikes » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:48 pm

HGervais wrote:"The Big Bang" = pretty great TV. Smith owns the role now and Moffat has crafted what is far and away the most consistent and rewarding series since the show returned.


H - I am surprised you wrote this. I know we do not share the same opinion about elements of the series (e.g. Matt Smith's acting), but you have previously commented on how you wanted a change from Russell T Davies's overblown style. Did you not think the series finale had all the faults of the RTD approach? I felt that these episodes were trying too hard to outdo previous denouements. You responded that "you are always trying to top yourself and that which came before you", which is true (by the way, "top yourself" is an expression for committing suicide in Great Britain, so avoid the phrase if you visit our shores to save embarrassment!). However do you not think that far from outdoing previous series, this was more of the same? The threat of destruction of reality had been done to death (if you will pardon the pun) at the end of series four with the Davros saga, and with the Christmas specials last year (the one with the Time Lords, the Master and the final appearances of david Tennant). I was really disappointed because I expected better writing from the Stephen Moffat team. Without going into detail, I found the plot of the series finale was chock full of non-sequiturs and unexplained events. It is difficult to convey complexity in two 45 minute episodes, particularly when an adventure requiring time travel as a solution is involved, but in this case, the latter was used too much as a kind of go-to convenient deus ex machina, and did not actually make sense when you try to rationalise it. Also, how does the fact of Amy retaining belief in the Doctor actually bring him back from the other side of the cracks in the universe? And why does he have to wait for her to "summon" him at her wedding, so to speak? Plenty more holes, I thought, too. I would be interested to hear why you and others thought it different from the RTD era, and not disappointingly lame in comparison with other writing by Moffat and co. I hope the Christmas Special will be up to the standard of previous one-offs (e.g. Planet of the Dead) which show that you don't need to imperil time, reality or the universe to make a good episode.

Karen Gillan acts her part well, as do the support actors.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:29 pm

In the aspect of the finale using a deus ex machina, yes it was RTD-like except this deus ex machina felt like it made sense in an organic way but the thing I got out of the finale that for as big as the previous episode was this was more intimate and personal in a way RTD never really approached. That and the entire season was much better plotted than anything the previous regime did. I often felt like Davies was winging it a lot of the time where as with "The Big Bang" you could almost hear all the pieces falling into place. As far as Amy...one of the key points made during the series is how some things are never really forgotten and if it was Amy's memories which helped recreate the universe, and those memories helped along by a life's exposure to the rift, is it really that much of a stretch to think that with the right prompts Amy's submerged memories could come to the surface and restore The Doctor? "Nothing remembered can ever truly be lost” And the way Moffat writes about time is nothing short of brilliant.

Again, I think you are totally wrong and completely miss the boat. The writing was of the highest standard, this series was of the highest standard and Matt Smith IS The Doctor.....I don't know how anyone can look at his speech to a sleeping Ameila Pond and not be truly moved. Oh and I loved the way several very large questions were left hanging for future series not the least of which is who is River Song and what is The Silence?
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby the5thghostbuster » Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:18 pm

HGervais wrote:In the aspect of the finale using a deus ex machina, yes it was RTD-like except this deus ex machina felt like it made sense in an organic way but the thing I got out of the finale that for as big as the previous episode was this was more intimate and personal in a way RTD never really approached. That and the entire season was much better plotted than anything the previous regime did. I often felt like Davies was winging it a lot of the time where as with "The Big Bang" you could almost hear all the pieces falling into place. As far as Amy...one of the key points made during the series is how some things are never really forgotten and if it was Amy's memories which helped recreate the universe, and those memories helped along by a life's exposure to the rift, is it really that much of a stretch to think that with the right prompts Amy's submerged memories could come to the surface and restore The Doctor? "Nothing remembered can ever truly be lost” And the way Moffat writes about time is nothing short of brilliant.

Again, I think you are totally wrong and completely miss the boat. The writing was of the highest standard, this series was of the highest standard and Matt Smith IS The Doctor.....I don't know how anyone can look at his speech to a sleeping Ameila Pond and not be truly moved. Oh and I loved the way several very large questions were left hanging for future series not the least of which is who is River Song and what is The Silence?


Again with everything here. Best series final since 2005, and Matt was at his finest here. In fact, Smith has just managed to become my favorite Doctor, toping my long time fav McCoy. Or, at the very least, they are tied.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby Polynikes » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:09 am

I think this is one of those cases where we have to agree to disagree. We are at polar opposites in our respective views of several aspects of this series. I hope that the Christmas special will prove to be one we all enjoy.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:07 am

Polynikes wrote:I think this is one of those cases where we have to agree to disagree. We are at polar opposites in our respective views of several aspects of this series. I hope that the Christmas special will prove to be one we all enjoy.

True. And after reading about a dozen reviews of the finale and most of the comments with them, you are very much in the minority to the point it almost makes me wonder if we watched the same thing.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:49 pm

Really interesting piece from Bleeding Cool on the template Russell T. Davies laid down when he brought Doctor Who back and how Steven Moffat has worked within that template while also looking back to the show's roots while also adding his own take on the mythos.
As I look back at series 5, or series 31 depending on how you view it, two words come to mind when I think of Steven Moffat's first go....Phillip Hinchcliffe. For me there is no higher praise.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby Polynikes » Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:16 pm

HGervais wrote:
Polynikes wrote:I think this is one of those cases where we have to agree to disagree. We are at polar opposites in our respective views of several aspects of this series. I hope that the Christmas special will prove to be one we all enjoy.

True. And after reading about a dozen reviews of the finale and most of the comments with them, you are very much in the minority to the point it almost makes me wonder if we watched the same thing.


I am sorry you are so piqued, H. I too might wonder from the opposite perspective whether others were watching the same programme; it's just that we have different opinions about it. I readily acknowledge (and have stated in previous posts) that the majority of the reviews I have read look very favourably on the current series, but that does not mean that I am "totally wrong and have completely missed the boat". If we all just accepted what reviewers wrote, or if we all agreed with each other about everything, what would be the point of this forum? The majority is not inevitably right in any field of life, and when it comes to the arts, it boils down to subjective opinion. I apologise if my criticism of the series has needled you, and I know that it can feel hurtful when one's favourite programme is greeted with less than enthusiasm. However, to be fair, I felt it reasonable to express my views, because my children used to look forward to Dr Who with great excitement on a Saturday evening, but have found the new series to be disappointing in comparison (and again I emphasise that I am sure we are in a minority), so I hope you can understand my reason for expressing criticism in that perspective. I don't think this discussion is benefitting anyone, so rather than keep it going, I shall just say "vive la difference" and leave it at that from now on. I hope the Christmas special and the next series are ones to everyone's taste, but don't worry, I shall not reopen the debate if they are not to my liking. Best wishes.
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Re: Doctor Who Series 5 Thread

Postby HGervais » Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:30 pm

Where have I expressed either anger or said you should not express your opinion? Yeah I think you are wrong but you know what? You think I'm wrong as well. You have not used those words but you would have not offered up multiple counter opinions if you & I were on the same page. And when I ask if I wonder if we watched the same thing, it's not sarcasm. No majority views don't make them the "right" view but they do provide a context from which to look at when put along side a dissenting opinion. You don't like it. I get it. Doesn't mean either one of us should take our toys out of the sandbox.
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