Objection!

The world's foremost contrarian a-holes, Judges David Johnson and Dan Mancini, have taken it upon themselves to defend the cinematically indefensible.

Objection!

Postby Mach6 » Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:58 am

That was a hilarious podcast. I never understood all the hate for Predator 2. The original Predator, to me, is the perfect (& my favorite) sci-fi action movie (4 stars or 100 on the verdict scale) & there was no way the sequel was ever going to top it. Predator 2 is a solid 3 stars & has it moments. It also includes the funniest scene in all the Predator movies when the old lady hears a lot of loud noises coming from her bathroom where the Predator is using his bathroom tile first aid kit & she walks toward the bathroom door with a broom(!) to confront the unknown threat!

Can the Verdict Crew possibly do an Objection on John Carpenter's Escape From LA? It's in the same boat as Predator 2 as a sequel to a classic original. I really hated LA for a long time since it was nowhere near as good as Escape from New York. Maybe, I'm getting soft in my old age, but when I looked at it without the NY expectations, it's actually a decent over the top action flick on its own. Then again, maybe I was taking the same drugs that caused Steve to think that Preador 2 is better than Predator.
Mach6
City Attorney
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 5:12 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Objection!

Postby Dan Mancini » Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:09 am

Thanks, man.

An Escape From L.A. episode will be forthcoming. It was one of the first titles I thought of when we started putting the show together. I, too, hated it the first time I saw it, but came to love it on its own terms.
User avatar
Dan Mancini
Chief Prosecutor
 
Posts: 4055
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 7:17 am
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Objection!

Postby Steve T Power » Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:28 am

Mach6 wrote:That was a hilarious podcast. I never understood all the hate for Predator 2. The original Predator, to me, is the perfect (& my favorite) sci-fi action movie (4 stars or 100 on the verdict scale) & there was no way the sequel was ever going to top it. Predator 2 is a solid 3 stars & has it moments. It also includes the funniest scene in all the Predator movies when the old lady hears a lot of loud noises coming from her bathroom where the Predator is using his bathroom tile first aid kit & she walks toward the bathroom door with a broom(!) to confront the unknown threat!

Can the Verdict Crew possibly do an Objection on John Carpenter's Escape From LA? It's in the same boat as Predator 2 as a sequel to a classic original. I really hated LA for a long time since it was nowhere near as good as Escape from New York. Maybe, I'm getting soft in my old age, but when I looked at it without the NY expectations, it's actually a decent over the top action flick on its own. Then again, maybe I was taking the same drugs that caused Steve to think that Preador 2 is better than Predator.


Those drugs are oh so sweet. I actually prefer the tongue in cheek self aware humor of LA to the "i are so serious!" grittiness of NY myself. People love to slag on old age Carpenter, but the guy still has the chops, and LA was just a great, fun ride. NY was a great effort for its time, a gritty dark action spectacle that was a minor miracle considering the budget. I lump it into the same category as films like The Warriors, it's great, sure, but maybe not quite as great as our memories of seeing it for the first time are.
As the ancient Tibetan philosophy states:"Don't start none... won't be none...".
User avatar
Steve T Power
Judge
 
Posts: 5351
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 3:08 pm
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland, CA

Re: Objection!

Postby Dan Mancini » Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:17 am

Steve T Power wrote:NY was a great effort for its time, a gritty dark action spectacle that was a minor miracle considering the budget. I lump it into the same category as films like The Warriors, it's great, sure, but maybe not quite as great as our memories of seeing it for the first time are.

I'd say that's overstating things a tad. I mean, NY is loaded with awesomeness such as Lee Van Cleef, Isaac Hayes, Harry Dean Stanton, and the Barbeau twins.
User avatar
Dan Mancini
Chief Prosecutor
 
Posts: 4055
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 7:17 am
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Objection!

Postby Steve T Power » Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:17 am

Dan Mancini wrote:
Steve T Power wrote:NY was a great effort for its time, a gritty dark action spectacle that was a minor miracle considering the budget. I lump it into the same category as films like The Warriors, it's great, sure, but maybe not quite as great as our memories of seeing it for the first time are.

I'd say that's overstating things a tad. I mean, NY is loaded with awesomeness such as Lee Van Cleef, Isaac Hayes, Harry Dean Stanton, and the Barbeau twins.


Ok, but if only for Van Cleef and the Barbeaus.
As the ancient Tibetan philosophy states:"Don't start none... won't be none...".
User avatar
Steve T Power
Judge
 
Posts: 5351
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 3:08 pm
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland, CA

Re: Objection!

Postby Bryan Pope » Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:56 am

Steve T Power wrote:
Dan Mancini wrote:
Steve T Power wrote:NY was a great effort for its time, a gritty dark action spectacle that was a minor miracle considering the budget. I lump it into the same category as films like The Warriors, it's great, sure, but maybe not quite as great as our memories of seeing it for the first time are.

I'd say that's overstating things a tad. I mean, NY is loaded with awesomeness such as Lee Van Cleef, Isaac Hayes, Harry Dean Stanton, and the Barbeau twins.


Ok, but if only for Van Cleef and the Barbeaus.

The Barbeau twins do make a lovely pair.

Love, love, LOVE Escape from L.A. Can't wait until you guys take it on.
Agnes, it's me...Billy.
User avatar
Bryan Pope
Judge
 
Posts: 833
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 10:44 am
Location: Texas

Re: Objection!

Postby Mach6 » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:00 pm

Waterworld: It’s hard to believe when a $175 million budget was considered ridiculous. I agree with most of this podcast that Waterworld got shafted because of it going way over budget. I don’t care how much a movie costs as long as the ticket costs less than $10 to watch it. The budget is clearly on the screen except for one moment. Also, unlike Avatar, there was an opportunity to shove a heavy handed global warming plot down our throats, but Costner & Co. knew they were making a fun, sci-fi/adventure fantasy not a message movie. The one moment: I’m surprised the crew forgot to mention the most cringe worthy moment (yes, even more so than the highly explosive jet ski motor boats & the bungee cord), was that cartoonish Sea Monster that swallowed Costner. It was only on the screen for a second, but that effect was “paste the Rock’s head on the Scorpion King’s body in The Mummy Returns” pathetic.
Mach6
City Attorney
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 5:12 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Objection!

Postby Steve T Power » Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:40 am

Mach6 wrote:Waterworld: It’s hard to believe when a $175 million budget was considered ridiculous. I agree with most of this podcast that Waterworld got shafted because of it going way over budget. I don’t care how much a movie costs as long as the ticket costs less than $10 to watch it. The budget is clearly on the screen except for one moment. Also, unlike Avatar, there was an opportunity to shove a heavy handed global warming plot down our throats, but Costner & Co. knew they were making a fun, sci-fi/adventure fantasy not a message movie. The one moment: I’m surprised the crew forgot to mention the most cringe worthy moment (yes, even more so than the highly explosive jet ski motor boats & the bungee cord), was that cartoonish Sea Monster that swallowed Costner. It was only on the screen for a second, but that effect was “paste the Rock’s head on the Scorpion King’s body in The Mummy Returns” pathetic.


I thought it looked pretty cool :) And it was only there for a second.
As the ancient Tibetan philosophy states:"Don't start none... won't be none...".
User avatar
Steve T Power
Judge
 
Posts: 5351
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 3:08 pm
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland, CA

Re: Objection!

Postby Gabriel Girard » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:44 am

Great defense of Escape From L.A., Dan and Brett. My personal defense of the surf scene: like Brett said I believe that the cheesiness is there on purpose also how can you have Peter Fonda as a hippie/surfer and NOT include a surfing scene? I also admit to not liking it when I first saw it, the second time I was hooked. I would have mentinned Buscemi a little bit more though. That Blu-Ray will be mine!
User avatar
Gabriel Girard
County Attorney
 
Posts: 2270
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:42 pm
Location: Montréal, Québec

Re: Objection!

Postby BrettCullum » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:36 am

GABRIEL - Love the new Snake AVATAR. I'm pretty jealous.
I had to rewatch ESCAPE FOR LA for the podcast, and I have to say coming back to it made me less critical. I loved everything we mentioned ... the gladiator style basketball game, the street surfing with Fonda, and of course... Pam Grier as the femme fetale with a pistol between her legs. What a ridiculous film, but then again... wasn't it always meant to be that? I still heart NY, but LA isn't as bad as everyone paints it up to be.
Alex: It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen. (Clockwork Orange)
User avatar
BrettCullum
Judge
 
Posts: 1669
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:11 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Objection!

Postby Mach6 » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:26 pm

Dan Mancini wrote:An Escape From L.A. episode will be forthcoming.

Thanks for keeping the promise & another great, in-depth Objection.

I totally, 100% agree about how ridiculous that the L.A. Blu Ray release is just bare bones. I appreciate the best visual & sound quality as well as the next guy, but this isn’t 1998 anymore when we were happy about just seeing a movie on disc & the subtitles option, a trailer, & those cast bios were the only special features. It’s either laziness, penny pinching, or, usually in Hollywood, the worst case of both. I want to hear another Russell-Carpenter commentary, I want to know how many takes it took Russell to hit all those shots, Bruce “Freakin” Campbell outtakes, & hey I even want to know how they pulled off the street surfing scene. (OK, maybe pulled off wasn’t the right term.)

I agree with Gabriel that Buscemi should’ve got more credit, but that whole cast (with one exception) seemed to be having a contest to see who could deliver the most over-the-top performance. I also got a big kick out of Snake using “Bangkok Rules” to kill the henchmen scene. The only weak link was A.J. Langer as the President’s clichéd rebellious daughter.

SPOILER:


That final scene were Snake activates the worldwide EMP device to reset the human race was one of the biggest anti-hero moments in action movie history. Who knows how many millions of innocent civilans Snake killed because he was sick of both sides & the entire world? That was a ballsy decision by Carpenter & Russell & an awesome way to end it.

“Welcome to the Human Race.”
Mach6
City Attorney
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 5:12 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Objection!

Postby Gabriel Girard » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:44 pm

Mach6 wrote:SPOILER:


That final scene were Snake activates the worldwide EMP device to reset the human race was one of the biggest anti-hero moments in action movie history. Who knows how many millions of innocent civilans Snake killed because he was sick of both sides & the entire world? That was a ballsy decision by Carpenter & Russell & an awesome way to end it.

“Welcome to the Human Race.”


It's ballsy for sure, and one of the best endings ever - but I'm biased.It also kinda reminds me of Ayn Rand..
User avatar
Gabriel Girard
County Attorney
 
Posts: 2270
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:42 pm
Location: Montréal, Québec

Re: Objection!

Postby BrettCullum » Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:20 am

I think the ending was inevitable. Snake is always thrown in to these environments where civilization has crumbled, and so he is just sharing his experience with the world. It makes total sense, and I understand Kurt Russell was the one who fought to get that ending in there. There is a poetic quality to it that really does work.

It also sets up the third chapter that was proposed by this team "ESCAPE FROM EARTH" where Snake was going to try to get to a rocket ship to get the hell off this rock. Imagine the possibilities!

No love on this thread yet for PAM GRIER? Man, but I loved her character.
Alex: It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen. (Clockwork Orange)
User avatar
BrettCullum
Judge
 
Posts: 1669
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:11 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Objection!

Postby cdouglas » Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:00 am

BrettCullum wrote:I think the ending was inevitable. Snake is always thrown in to these environments where civilization has crumbled, and so he is just sharing his experience with the world. It makes total sense, and I understand Kurt Russell was the one who fought to get that ending in there. There is a poetic quality to it that really does work.

It also sets up the third chapter that was proposed by this team "ESCAPE FROM EARTH" where Snake was going to try to get to a rocket ship to get the hell off this rock. Imagine the possibilities!

No love on this thread yet for PAM GRIER? Man, but I loved her character.


I'm with ya on Pam Grier. She's awesome in that movie. I've always liked Escape from L.A. quite a lot; it's amusing to consider that it's a sequel which is essentially a satirical remake of its predecessor.
cdouglas
Judge
 
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 10:49 am

Re: Objection!

Postby Gabriel Girard » Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:22 am

Loved Grier as well - as Mach6 said all of the supporting roles are awesome. Heck i even like A.J. Langer - she plays the role perfectly.
User avatar
Gabriel Girard
County Attorney
 
Posts: 2270
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:42 pm
Location: Montréal, Québec

Re: Objection!

Postby Mach6 » Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:51 pm

Gabriel Girard wrote:Heck i even like A.J. Langer - she plays the role perfectly.

I didn’t think Langer was horrible, she was OK, maybe watching 24’s stupid, rebellious daughter Kim Bauer after all these years has influenced me to hate that character type. Also, Grier, Buscemi, Fonda, Campbell, Keach, Corraface, Robertson & etc. were in another league with their performances. I want to give props to Cliff Robertson. He didn’t get too much screen time, but he was perfect as the ruthless religious nutcase President who showed no tolerance for anyone who didn’t follow his way. It’s says a lot about Robertson’s talent that he can play a completely different character in Uncle Ben for the Spiderman movies.

How about an Objection on Robocop 2 or Punisher: War Zone? I know a lot of critics bashed Robocop 2 because it was too mean spirited & had the least believable mid-level boss in history with a pre-teen brat leading a drug cartel/crime syndicate(?!), but I thought the rest of it still had the cutting satire & stop-motion animation of the original. The final battle with Robo & the entire (or what was left of the) Detroit Police Dept. vs. Robo 2/Cain was great.
Due to the horrible reviews & its lousy box office, I wasn’t expecting much when I finally rented Punisher: War Zone a year ago & damn this surpassed & shot my expectations into a bloody pulp. Ray Stevenson is the perfect Frank Castle/Punisher & Dominic West was hilarious chewing scenery left & right as Jigsaw. Unlike the neutered Thomas Jane version, the violence & kills are very hardcore & definitely earned an R rating. Finally, there isn’t any shaky cam during the action scenes, so I can clearly see how the Punisher is increasing his body count. War Zone succeeded at being an entertaining B-Movie-type, vigilante flick.
Mach6
City Attorney
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 5:12 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Objection!

Postby Dan Mancini » Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:13 pm

cdouglas wrote:
BrettCullum wrote:I think the ending was inevitable. Snake is always thrown in to these environments where civilization has crumbled, and so he is just sharing his experience with the world. It makes total sense, and I understand Kurt Russell was the one who fought to get that ending in there. There is a poetic quality to it that really does work.

It also sets up the third chapter that was proposed by this team "ESCAPE FROM EARTH" where Snake was going to try to get to a rocket ship to get the hell off this rock. Imagine the possibilities!

No love on this thread yet for PAM GRIER? Man, but I loved her character.


I'm with ya on Pam Grier. She's awesome in that movie. I've always liked Escape from L.A. quite a lot; it's amusing to consider that it's a sequel which is essentially a satirical remake of its predecessor.

If Hollywood insists on doing another Snake Plissken adventure without Carpenter's or Russell's involvement (or blessing), I wish they'd at least have the balls to do a prequel about a caper involving Snake, Brain, Carjack Malone, and Fresno Bob.

And thanks for the kudos, gents. It's much appreciated. We'll take Robocop 2 and Punisher: War Zone under advisement. I'm not sure that I've seen the former since I caught it in the theater, and the latter didn't leave much of an impression on me but I may need to give it another go.
User avatar
Dan Mancini
Chief Prosecutor
 
Posts: 4055
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 7:17 am
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Objection!

Postby Boba Fett » Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:24 pm

Robocop 2 was crap, not as bad as Robocop 3, but still bad. The swearing pre-teen drug lord is the only memorable part.

Punisher: Warzone on the other hand is 10 tons of awesome.

And your discussion about Reign of Fire a few weeks ago reminded me of how much fun the movie was and I snagged a cheap copy today.
"I assure you, whatever the others promise to do, when it comes to the showdown, they won't be there."
User avatar
Boba Fett
County Attorney
 
Posts: 1714
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:11 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Objection!

Postby Boba Fett » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:52 pm

Listened to the "Escape from LA" podcast and thought I'd offer a possible explanation for the lack of commentary. Both Carpenter and Russell were approached to do a commentary for "Elvis" and both said they weren't interested; I wouldn't be shocked if that was also the case on "Escape from LA."
"I assure you, whatever the others promise to do, when it comes to the showdown, they won't be there."
User avatar
Boba Fett
County Attorney
 
Posts: 1714
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:11 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Objection!

Postby Andrew Forbes » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:32 am

Boba Fett wrote:Robocop 2 was crap, not as bad as Robocop 3, but still bad. The swearing pre-teen drug lord is the only memorable part.

The swearing pre-teen drug lord is the only part I really hate. I thought the movie did a good job of continuing the bloody satire of the first movie, and Kershner handles the action really well. It's vastly superior to RC3's kiddy-friendly script, awful effects and sluggish direction. I mean, come on, those ads for Magnavolt and Sunblock 5000 are every bit as good as anything in the original movie.
Formerly chamucamel
User avatar
Andrew Forbes
County Prosecutor
 
Posts: 2615
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:43 am
Location: Edmonton, AB

Re: Objection!

Postby Steve T Power » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:24 am

Andrew Forbes wrote:
Boba Fett wrote:Robocop 2 was crap, not as bad as Robocop 3, but still bad. The swearing pre-teen drug lord is the only memorable part.

The swearing pre-teen drug lord is the only part I really hate. I thought the movie did a good job of continuing the bloody satire of the first movie, and Kershner handles the action really well. It's vastly superior to RC3's kiddy-friendly script, awful effects and sluggish direction. I mean, come on, those ads for Magnavolt and Sunblock 5000 are every bit as good as anything in the original movie.


I think Robocop 2's biggest problem is its bloated middle act. The first act moves like gangbusters, then Murphy gets trashed, and the movie slows to a crawl. That big beat-down at the end is fantastic though.

Kershner also lacks Verhoven's slyness when it comes to the satire. Verhoven was hardly subtle, but Kershner is like a bag of hammers about the head and neck.
As the ancient Tibetan philosophy states:"Don't start none... won't be none...".
User avatar
Steve T Power
Judge
 
Posts: 5351
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 3:08 pm
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland, CA

Re: Objection!

Postby Andrew Forbes » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:36 pm

Steve T Power wrote:I think Robocop 2's biggest problem is its bloated middle act. The first act moves like gangbusters, then Murphy gets trashed, and the movie slows to a crawl. That big beat-down at the end is fantastic though.

Kershner also lacks Verhoven's slyness when it comes to the satire. Verhoven was hardly subtle, but Kershner is like a bag of hammers about the head and neck.

I don't think you can get less subtle than Verhoeven, so I don't really see Kershner's effort as a step down. You're right about the middle act. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Robocop 2 is any classic, but then I don't think the first flick is all it's cracked up to be, either. Iconic, to be sure, but it's pretty damn cheesy, even when it's not trying to be.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if somebody offered to sell me Robocop 2 for a dollar, I would seriously consider the purchase.
Formerly chamucamel
User avatar
Andrew Forbes
County Prosecutor
 
Posts: 2615
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:43 am
Location: Edmonton, AB

Re: Objection!

Postby Gabriel Girard » Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:14 pm

Re : Jar-Jar - weren't the same kind of complaints thrown at the Ewoks when Jedi came out ? With time I think he'll become less annoying because of the kids who grew up with him. And yeah Lucas shouldn't have directed the prequels himself - most people agree that Empire is the best and Lucas didn't direct it ... I mostly agree about Jar-Jar but not about the dialogue - I'm not sure anyone could have made the Padme-Anakin love scenes work as written - just plain horrible...
User avatar
Gabriel Girard
County Attorney
 
Posts: 2270
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:42 pm
Location: Montréal, Québec

Re: Objection!

Postby mavrach » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:38 pm

Robocop 2 is just disjointed, it feels episodic. You get what should be a meaningful subplot about his wife early on, then it's never referenced again. Then the drug gang of the first act feels totally different from the technological battle later on, with the satirical sillyness in the middle with the PC implants.

I've always liked it, but it's not close to the first one. Why a comparison to part 3 is in question at all, I don't know
+1. this is very interesting.
User avatar
mavrach
County Attorney
 
Posts: 1728
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:41 am
Location: North Jersey, at the end of a one-way dead-end road.

Re: Objection!

Postby Dan Mancini » Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:14 am

Gabriel Girard wrote:I'm not sure anyone could have made the Padme-Anakin love scenes work as written - just plain horrible...

That was my point. Dialogue often doesn't work as written (not just Lucas'). Part of an actor's job is to adjust things to make it work. Part of a director's job is to help actors make those adjustments. And making those adjustments begins with the actor having a grasp on the character that goes beyond reading words on a page. In the case of Star Wars, that should be relatively easy because the characters are archetypal and the dialogue isn't complex or poetic, it's functional.

Most of the actors in the prequels didn't make those adjustments...probably because they felt like they were treading on holy ground. But Lucas is to blame because he (apparently) didn't recognize when scenes weren't working and encourage his actors make those adjustments. I'm not down on Christensen like some people are but if Lucas was determined to take a hands-off approach, he should have hired a more experienced actor to play Anakin instead of specifically seeking out an unknown.

Also, he should have canned Natalie Portman after Clones (as was rumored to be a possibility at the time).
User avatar
Dan Mancini
Chief Prosecutor
 
Posts: 4055
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 7:17 am
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Objection!

Postby Gabriel Girard » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:06 am

I see what you mean. As someone pointed out somewhere (I really can't remember) the best line of dialogue from the OT (''I love you'' ''I know'') was caused by Harrison Ford responding to too many takes... Also as you pointed out the more experienced actors (Ewan McGregor, Ian Mcdermid, Sam Jackson and Christopher Lee) seemed to have more fun and to be more comfortable living in their characters' skin. The exception is Liam Neeson who brings nothing to Qui-Gon, heck his role as Ducard in Batman Begins is essentially the same and he plays it better!
User avatar
Gabriel Girard
County Attorney
 
Posts: 2270
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:42 pm
Location: Montréal, Québec

Re: Objection!

Postby Dan Mancini » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:07 am

Gabriel Girard wrote:The exception is Liam Neeson who brings nothing to Qui-Gon, heck his role as Ducard in Batman Begins is essentially the same and he plays it better!

I find Jackson pretty hit or miss, too. When he's doing the badass thing, he's in his element. When he's standing around talking, he has a lot of trouble with the formality of the dialogue.
User avatar
Dan Mancini
Chief Prosecutor
 
Posts: 4055
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 7:17 am
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Objection!

Postby Mach6 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:53 pm

I got a kick out of the Christopher Nolan is God & James Cameron's last two movies have really, really sucked Objection podcast.

Nolan is clearly the #1 director for big budget blockbusters. I'm joining "the watch Inception at the theater for a second time club" this weekend. Inception has been #1 for 3 weeks at the box office, maybe the rest of Hollywood will take notice that smart films with original ideas can put butts in the seats. After Nolan's done with his 3rd Batman film, I want him to direct the Highlander remake. Nolan's storytelling ability to handle various timelines (or realities) would be perfect for character(s) that have lived for over hundreds or thousands of years. Just like he did with Batman, I want to see Nolan's realistic take on this franchise.

Dave Ryan brought up a good point that he felt it was very cynical of Cameron to repeat the Titanic formula for Avatar so he could get similar awards & box office. I thought it was more cynical of Cameron to portray the U.S. military force as EVIL, bloodthirsty mercenaries (except for the brilliant Michelle Rodriguez) who never question the type of orders they have to carry out so he could suck up to the worldwide audiences. At one point, probably when the movie's budget would be well over $300 million, Cameron must've realized the only way Avatar was going to make a profit was for this to make big money overseas. Most of the world doesn't like the U.S. presence in Afghanistan or Iraq so Cameron gave them what they wanted: a movie that shows the evil, occupational U.S. military getting their butts kicked & having to withdraw from the country, err, I mean, planet in shame. After True Lies, James Cameron is dead to me.

Also, I'm glad Dave pointed out that the South Park "Dances with Smurfs" episode basically predicted Avatar's plot 100%. When the Big Tractor/Bulldozer came to demolish the Navis' forest in Avatar, was I the only one in the theater thinking about doing a Cartman impression & screaming "SUCK MY FAT #!#$"?
Mach6
City Attorney
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 5:12 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Objection!

Postby Dave Ryan » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:10 am

Mach--

I wouldn't say it's so much cynical as it is just plain lazy. The point I was trying to make is that Cameron doesn't appear to care about story that much; he's interested in the visual aspect of moviemaking. So he just takes standard storytelling tropes (of which "evil government bureaucracy/army" is one) and jury-rigs a scaffolding of low-effort storytelling on which to hang his beautiful pictures. And we all know he's better than that.

On the other hand, I certainly wouldn't rule out a situation where he's just saying "this is the crap you people eat up like pigs at the trough", and dreaming of the checks he's going to cash...
"Your average Russki doesn't take a dump without a plan, son."
User avatar
Dave Ryan
Judge
 
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:18 pm
Location: Sudbury, MA

Re: Objection!

Postby Dan Mancini » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:50 am

Dave Ryan wrote:I wouldn't say it's so much cynical as it is just plain lazy.

I think Mach just mixed us up. I'm the one who said it was cynical, that Cameron purposely used familiar building blocks to form the stories and didn't develop the characters in order to appeal the broadest possible audience.
User avatar
Dan Mancini
Chief Prosecutor
 
Posts: 4055
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 7:17 am
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Objection!

Postby Gabriel Girard » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:35 am

I enjoed the podcast and will say I feel the same way about Cameron but have a two ''objections'' of my hown:

DRyan : I can't enfashion True LIes as anything but a comedy. I never fely as though Cameron ever tried to do something ''serious'' with it - which might be why he disowns it now.

As far as his last '''good narrative film'' goes I'd even back-pedal to The Abyss. I love T2 as much as the next guy but one can't really call it a good narrative piece, with hindsight ant time doing its work it feels like the beginning of Cameron's ''tech demo'' phase. When you think about it it's just a series of set pieces (albeit really cool ones). The best writing in it is probably the Linda Hamilton stuff.
User avatar
Gabriel Girard
County Attorney
 
Posts: 2270
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:42 pm
Location: Montréal, Québec

Re: Objection!

Postby Steve T Power » Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:43 am

It's extremely easy to slam Avatar for what it is or isn't, i won't go down that road again. I would add, however;

Cameron has NEVER been an exceptional writer. Everything he's done has been either derived from other work or otherwise cliche. Terminator's sources are well documented, Aliens began life as an adaptation of Starship Troopers, T2 didn't really have a plot to speak of, True Lies was a French play, Titanic was derivative of pretty much every dramatic film on the same subject, and Avatar's inspirations are, again, well documented. Sure he likes to play up themes and metaphors, but at the end of the day, 99 percent of his output is about blowing shit up.

The Abyss is really about the only entirely original piece of work in his oeuvre, and one could argue that it's Close Encounters at 20'000 fathoms.

I don't have a problem with any of it really. The guy is a brilliant action director, he's got a crazy eye for design and the imagination and skills to get what's in his head onto the screen. I think, at the end of the day, he doesn't give a shit about box office. I don't think the guy is quite so cynical, i think he just shoots and cuts to satisfy his own tastes, much like a certain other eccentric sci-fi filmmaker who gets shat upon for "building an empire" when all he wanted to do was make cheesy sci-fi. If the public gravitates to it, mores the better.
As the ancient Tibetan philosophy states:"Don't start none... won't be none...".
User avatar
Steve T Power
Judge
 
Posts: 5351
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 3:08 pm
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland, CA

Re: Objection!

Postby Mach6 » Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:27 pm

Geek Alert: The robot housemaid was actually in Rocky 4 (the one where Rocky single-handedly ended the Cold War) not Rocky 3. Dave & Dan lost some geek cred there.

Damn you Dave & Dan for bringing up the ridiculously awful Superman 3. I had finally erased it from my mind a few years ago & now it’s back like a really long Vietnam flashback.

Terminator 3, just like Predator 2 & Escape from L.A., is another sequel that gets unfairly maligned because it’s not as good as the original or earlier efforts. T3 isn’t a classic, but it gets the job done with some spectacular action scenes, decent, likable characters, & a nice surprise ending. When I first saw it, I thought the crane truck/fire engine/van chase was far superior to the overrated & over hyped highway chase in the Matrix Reloaded from about a month earlier. Another good scene is early on when the T-X was hunting for John Connor’s future generals & she reaches a house & two (pre?)teenagers open the door. She asks them what their names are & as soon as they identify themselves, she kills them immediately. It was done off-screen, yet I was still shocked. I’m embarrassed to admit that I did laugh at Arnold’s ultra-cheesy “Talk to the Hand” one liner. Arnold's accent can make the lamest dialogue sound funny. Now compare that with Terminator Salvation, which has maybe one good action scene & a story with characters I couldn’t give a damn about.
Mach6
City Attorney
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 5:12 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Objection!

Postby Dan Mancini » Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:02 pm

Mach6 wrote:I thought the crane truck/fire engine/van chase was far superior to the overrated & over hyped highway chase in the Matrix Reloaded from about a month earlier.

QFT.
User avatar
Dan Mancini
Chief Prosecutor
 
Posts: 4055
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 7:17 am
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Objection!

Postby Boba Fett » Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:16 pm

Any of you guys fans of "The Spirit?"

If there's one film critics and viewers alike seem to hate it's that one, but I absolutely think its a fun, pure b-movie.
"I assure you, whatever the others promise to do, when it comes to the showdown, they won't be there."
User avatar
Boba Fett
County Attorney
 
Posts: 1714
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:11 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Objection!

Postby Jon Mercer » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:25 am

Given the fact that The Expendables is awesome; you guys should rally up a defense for Stallone. Judge Dredd? Or dare I say...Cobra. I'd be all over that.
User avatar
Jon Mercer
County Attorney
 
Posts: 1203
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 10:41 am
Location: St. John's, NL

Re: Objection!

Postby Dan Mancini » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:27 pm

Jon Mercer wrote:Given the fact that The Expendables is awesome; you guys should rally up a defense for Stallone. Judge Dredd? Or dare I say...Cobra. I'd be all over that.

Rambo III is coming soon to a podcast near you.
User avatar
Dan Mancini
Chief Prosecutor
 
Posts: 4055
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 7:17 am
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Objection!

Postby Boba Fett » Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:01 am

When you guys were talking about Die Hard on the last episode and Rickman's stunt, I remembered an old show on AMC called "Movie Magic" and I think they did an entire episode or at least a huge segment on that stunt. I seem to remember they had Rickman on a harness behind a blue screen and dropped him 30-40 feet while pulling the camera away in the opposite direction. McTiernan supposedly gave the go ahead a few seconds before Rickman expected to be dropped and his horrified expression is all real.

EDIT: Looks like the stunt was actually more simple, but even more insane. They dropped Rickman onto an airbag from the 40 foot height.
"I assure you, whatever the others promise to do, when it comes to the showdown, they won't be there."
User avatar
Boba Fett
County Attorney
 
Posts: 1714
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:11 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Objection!

Postby Mach6 » Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:05 pm

The Rambo III podcast crew was talking about all the Die Hard movies & this “everybody hates backlash” or reverse Star Trek Curse toward the even numbered ones Die Hard 2: Die Harder & Live Free or Die Hard. What? The critics liked Live Free or Die Hard with an over 80% fresh rating at rottentomatoes.com. Where is all this negativity coming from? Are there people still complaining about the PG-13 rating or the Harrier Jet vs. Big Rig Truck as being too “unrealistic” to be in a Die Hard movie? As for the PG-13, when I saw it at the theater, I was a little disappointed that McClane couldn’t say his signature one-liner & the blood was toned down but when I got the DVD with the unrated R version, there wasn’t that much of a big difference. Since the beginning, the Die Hard movies have always had over-the-top action sequences. Even in the 1st Die Hard, they had McClane jumping off of a skyscraper with a fire hose wrapped around his waist to avoid the big rooftop explosion isn’t what I would call realistic. So, I had no problem & really enjoyed McClane killing a helicopter with a car or dropping Maggie Q down an elevator shaft. How can I not like a movie that has Timothy Olyphant hamming it up as the cold, calculated, main hacker villain?

As for Die Hard 2, I do consider it the least of the Die Hard movies but it’s still a solid entry in the series. Like most critics, I can’t get past the big “why couldn’t the planes land at another airport” plot hole, the Billy Bob Thorton look-alike providing unfunny comic relief, & William Sadler & Franco Nero were mediocre as the main villains. On the positive side, I loved all the Willis/Dennis Franz/Fred Thompson confrontations, the shootout in the construction area with a pre-T-1000 Robert Patrick, the icicle kill, McClane fighting bad guys on the wing of a moving 747, & one of the best final explosion to kill the main villains’ scenes ever. The good stuff far outweighs the bad stuff. If you ask me, it’s still easily Renny Harlin’s best work. (Then again, that isn't really saying much.)
Mach6
City Attorney
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 5:12 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Objection!

Postby Ptolemy » Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:03 am

I've tried downloading the REIGN OF FIRE podcast a couple times now - and it is incomplete. Can someone please fix it? Thanks!
Elvis Presley was a model citizen. I've compiled a list of his traits for you to practice. Number one...is dancing!
User avatar
Ptolemy
City Attorney
 
Posts: 418
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 6:40 pm
Location: UT

Re: Objection!

Postby Michael Stailey » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:25 am

Not sure where the problem is, but the REIGN OF FIRE episode plays in its entirety on both of our servers...

http://www.dvdverdict.com/mp3s/podcast604.mp3

http://traffic.libsyn.com/dvdverdict/604.mp3
User avatar
Michael Stailey
Chief Justice
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 6:36 am
Location: Marina del Rey, CA

Re: Objection!

Postby Ptolemy » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:22 am

Really? I download manually - I just downloaded again. I'll see if it works for me this time.
Elvis Presley was a model citizen. I've compiled a list of his traits for you to practice. Number one...is dancing!
User avatar
Ptolemy
City Attorney
 
Posts: 418
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 6:40 pm
Location: UT

Re: Objection!

Postby Gabriel Girard » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:39 pm

How about Day Of The Dead ?
User avatar
Gabriel Girard
County Attorney
 
Posts: 2270
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:42 pm
Location: Montréal, Québec

Re: Objection!

Postby Mach6 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:04 am

Ted Dibiase Jr. vs. John Cena

I was really surprised when Steve said Ted Dibiase Jr. gave a better performance in The Marine 2 than John Cena did in The Marine. I still watch WWE Monday Night Raw (yes, I admit it, I still watch it) & Dibiase shows very little charisma or personality in the ring or in his interviews. You would think the son of one of the most entertaining wrestlers of the 80’s “The Million Dollar Man” Ted Dibiase would inherit his old man’s talents but he didn’t. Heck, he can’t even do his father’s famous evil laugh (Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha!). I’ll only watch The Marine 2 when it’s for free on the movie channels.

For the record, I have only seen The Marine once & didn’t care too much for it except for Robert Patrick’s over the top scenery chewing & Kelly Carlson’s hotness. If John Cena, who is considered one of the most charismatic wrestlers in the world right not, can’t carry a movie, I can’t see how Dibiase Jr. could do any better. I’m not defending John Cena’s acting abilities either. After watching The Marine & Ten Rounds, he should stick to his day job. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper & The Rock have nothing to worry about as being the best pro wrestling actors.
Mach6
City Attorney
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 5:12 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Objection!

Postby Steve T Power » Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:56 am

Mach6 wrote:Ted Dibiase Jr. vs. John Cena

I was really surprised when Steve said Ted Dibiase Jr. gave a better performance in The Marine 2 than John Cena did in The Marine. I still watch WWE Monday Night Raw (yes, I admit it, I still watch it) & Dibiase shows very little charisma or personality in the ring or in his interviews. You would think the son of one of the most entertaining wrestlers of the 80’s “The Million Dollar Man” Ted Dibiase would inherit his old man’s talents but he didn’t. Heck, he can’t even do his father’s famous evil laugh (Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha!). I’ll only watch The Marine 2 when it’s for free on the movie channels.

For the record, I have only seen The Marine once & didn’t care too much for it except for Robert Patrick’s over the top scenery chewing & Kelly Carlson’s hotness. If John Cena, who is considered one of the most charismatic wrestlers in the world right not, can’t carry a movie, I can’t see how Dibiase Jr. could do any better. I’m not defending John Cena’s acting abilities either. After watching The Marine & Ten Rounds, he should stick to his day job. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper & The Rock have nothing to worry about as being the best pro wrestling actors.


As someone who hasn't watched more than 5 minutes of pro-wrestling since the days of the Iron Sheik and Nikolai Volkoff, I'll take your word for it with regards to ring personas. With regards to acting, Cena just seemed to be stuck in "I are serious actor! I demand respect!" mode, when he wasn't generally struggling with the material or looking like he was having a miserable time making a movie. Dibiase Jr, stuck in a much more wretched movie, no doubt, had a ton of on screen charm, and made it all look a little more effortless (he was also a bit more flexible in the action bits).
As the ancient Tibetan philosophy states:"Don't start none... won't be none...".
User avatar
Steve T Power
Judge
 
Posts: 5351
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 3:08 pm
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland, CA

Re: Objection!

Postby Mach6 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:50 pm

Thank you both very much, for telling the truth about what an overrated piece of Notre Dame Propaganda garbage that Rudy is. No matter how sincere Sean Astin’s performance was, Rudy comes off as such an annoying whiner. I know every movie based on a real story can’t be 100% accurate, I can live with some of the little details being left out but when they change (cough, LIE about) major parts or characters for dramatic impact, I get really upset. The way they portrayed Coach Devine as a Bobby Knight on steroids or when the players laid down their jerseys on his desk was more ridiculous BS than when in Pearl Harbor, Jon Voight’s FDR stood up from his wheelchair to deliver that inspirational speech.

Let’s face it: If you’re not at least 5’9 tall or good at punting or kicking field goals, your chances of getting into the NFL are slim & none. In the NBA, I can only count 3 players in that size range Mugsy Bouges (5’3), Spud Webb (5’7), & Earl Boykins (5’5) who’ve had decent or good careers. The real Rudy & Astin’s Rudy didn’t possess the blazing speed or athletic ability to make up for his lack of height so I can’t blame the real or fictional Coach Devine for not playing him. He was just practicing good judgment.

Geek Alert: It was actually Christopher Walken, not Jon Voight, who represented the Old White Man Cabal in The Rundown. It’s easy to get Walken & Voight confused since they portrayed the OWMC so much in their careers. Maybe the OWMC can sponsor a Christopher Walken Tribute To Evil after Voight's.
Mach6
City Attorney
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 5:12 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Objection!

Postby Boba Fett » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:36 am

I can't remember if you guys mentioned it but RUDY and HOOSIERS were directed by the same guy. The 180° shift in quality is shocking.
"I assure you, whatever the others promise to do, when it comes to the showdown, they won't be there."
User avatar
Boba Fett
County Attorney
 
Posts: 1714
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:11 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Objection!

Postby Attrage » Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:52 pm

Hey, whoah. Wait a minute. Guys, guys, please. If we didn't have the movie Rudy, we wouldnt have the awesome bit in the Simpsons Season 12 episode "Sunday, Cruddy Sunday"!! :) "Get lost, Rudy! You're too small to go to the Superbowl!" LOL
Don't worry darling, its just a hat, belonging to a small man of limited means who lost a fight with a chicken!
User avatar
Attrage
City Attorney
 
Posts: 372
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:47 pm

Re: Objection!

Postby Dan Mancini » Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:35 am

Mach6 wrote:Geek Alert: It was actually Christopher Walken, not Jon Voight, who represented the Old White Man Cabal in The Rundown. It’s easy to get Walken & Voight confused since they portrayed the OWMC so much in their careers. Maybe the OWMC can sponsor a Christopher Walken Tribute To Evil after Voight's.

Right on. I should've remembered that considering I reviewed the Blu-ray, but it's difficult to keep track of the late-career insanity of both Voight and Walken.
User avatar
Dan Mancini
Chief Prosecutor
 
Posts: 4055
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 7:17 am
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Objection!

Postby Mach6 » Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:34 pm

In terms of leadership & political skills, Emperor Palpatine over Ming by ten touchdowns. Although, Ming would be a far more entertaining commander-in-chief by car crash standards.

If I have to defend a despised political despot, I’ll make my case for Cliff Robertson’s “President” from Escape from L.A. (I’ve seen the movie several times & checked IMDB & I can’t find a last name for him.) Here are the President’s strengths:

Healthcare: The President’s No Smoking & No Drinking Alcohol rules probably saved billions of dollars in healthcare costs by preventing a ton of car accidents, lung cancers, & beer bellies from happening. Also, the No Red Meat rule had to at least cut down the obesity rate in half. Who needs government sponsored healthcare when you have those types of “preventative measures”?

Military Strategy: The worldwide satellite EMP targeting system would be a very cost-efficient & safe way to win a war. We wouldn’t have to put our troops in harm’s way by sending them to a foreign country & occupy it for 10-15 years when a few clicks of the Satellite Remote Control can cripple the enemy & set them back 100+ years technologically.

The Deficit/Job Creation: By turning Los Angeles into the prison for everybody who doesn’t follow his moral code, every state government could finally close all those overcrowded prisons that are bleeding their budgets into the deep red. On the job front, the creation of the military police kept the unemployment rate always under 4.0%. I bet half of California was employed to make sure nobody escaped from the island of L.A.

No Nepotism: We all expect any offspring of a big political family like the Kennedys, Clintons, & Bushes to get special treatment. Robertson’s President doesn’t play favorites by ordering the execution of his own daughter Utopia for joining up with the enemy. Even after the Pres got the Satellite Remote Control back, he still wanted her killed. Now’s that a president of conviction. Ming would be proud.

So, I’m willing to overlook the whole “he turned the USA into a fascist country & eliminated almost all our basic rights & freedoms” stuff.
Mach6
City Attorney
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 5:12 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Next

Return to Objection!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron