evil meets evil

[molly1216]

So i am watching the Keep...which i saw when it was first released cause i had a crush on Jurgen Prochnow..
and i remember when i had read the book..which also had that unsatisfying ending by the way.
it was one of the first few supernatural horror versus the Nazi's novels i could get my hands on..
And if i am not mistaken the Keep was the 1st Horror meets horror movies i had ever seen..

since then there have been a couple more but not many...
off the top of my head i can only remember
The Bunker (2001) looked promising but wasn't very

which leads me to the question....why not? why haven't we seen more movies where
something supernatural feasts on Nazi's? is it because it puts them in a sympathetic position?
that can't make any sense..we have reach an age where all we want to see is people dismembered
seems to me if they were nazi's that would all the more fun..as Inglourious Basterds has proven.

[Attrage]

Some supernatural stuff tears Nazis a new one at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark...
But that's not really answering your question...thankyou for mentioning the Keep though, it reminded me it was one of the movies my parents wouldnt let me watch when I was younger. I was gutted because the VHS cover looked so cool. Another one was The Exterminator, which I ended up seeing eventually...and discovered I hadnt missed much by missing out on it. Would you recommend me bothering to track down The Keep?
Hmm still not really contributing much to this discussion am I?? lol

[molly1216]

Some supernatural stuff tears Nazis a new one at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark...
But that's not really answering your question...thankyou for mentioning the Keep though, it reminded me it was one of the movies my parents wouldnt let me watch when I was younger. I was gutted because the VHS cover looked so cool. Another one was The Exterminator, which I ended up seeing eventually...and discovered I hadnt missed much by missing out on it. Would you recommend me bothering to track down The Keep?
Hmm still not really contributing much to this discussion am I?? lol

it's not on dvd...so your only option is Netflix Instant Watch
and yes it has some coolness to it..and the cast is terrific..but don't think too much about it, it will annoy you how much is missing.

don't worry..sometimes i just start threads about peculiar thought which doesn't spawn many replies

[mavrach]

I liked The Keep as well. It was one of the first movies I saw when I signed up for Netflix a year ago. Very different for Michael Mann.

The evil on evil thing probably isn't done so often because it blurs the line between victims & villains on both sides. It can be used with the Nazis because it shows that an even worse presence may come to power if they were to win. It also goes with the idea of Nazis dabbling in the supernatural. Either they unleash something that kills them or makes them stronger.

If anything, most horror victims are empty characters that you can root against, and there's always one douchebag character that you're supposed to want to die.

[molly1216]

i dunno..if i were a genre screenwriter i'd love to turn some superhuman creature loose to rend and tear the german war machine.
i wonder if there are a bunch of unproduced manuscripts out there depicting that?

Robert Macammon's Wolf's Hour would make a hell of a movie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wolf's_Hour
the Agent hired by the Brits to go up against the nazi's is actually a russian werewolf..one of my favorite books

[mkiker2089]

the thing is exactly what you said in your first post Molly, we want good versus evil. Stark contrast to keep the story clear.

Think of Murder She Wrote. The story in the first season was a somewhat senseless murder by someone unsuspecting. It was much less cliched but less pleasing to many. In the later seasons the person murdered always "had it coming" and the person who did the murder often had traits revealed to make them equally loathed.

We aren't even touching on the fact that many Nazi's could be painted sympathetically given the fascist regime at the time. Would you die for your morals even if the only thing Hitler wanted you to do was handle payroll? Be a fair and honest prison guard even to the point of protecting the prisoners from abuse? Hitler youth group leader (or youth even)? I wouldn't in any of those cases.

[molly1216]

i think my theory is also being clouded because we have reach an era where many times our 'monsters' may also be the heroes
we have many more 'tragic monsters or heroic vampires than ever.
perhaps i am keying on that.. using a supernatural creature to do bad things to bad people appeals to me.
i wonder what Angel was doing during the war?

indeed many of the cozy mysteries have a victim hated by many so that you had a more suspects.

[mkiker2089]

A perfect example of monster becoming the hero is Pinhead. We've mentioned it in other threads. He changed from nobody in the first, to evil but with a strange sense of morals at the same time (going after the one who opened the box, no collateral damage), and then becoming almost a force of good in itself by removing the evil doers attracted to the box.

I can see this with Nazi's also which is why my mind wandered so easily. A story with a german soldier turning out to be the hero would be clever. I seem to recall a book or movie about a woman in germany inviting soldiers to dinner and it just so happened she was so close to the front line that both sides showed up, all were happy, people cried a bit, maybe there was an orgy (not really), but it played on the evil isn't always evil.

We also have to consider that evil doesn't really exist, well not often. Evil people exist but usually they don't know they are evil. Bin Ladden died thinking he was a hero, Qadaffi died thinking he was a fair and just ruler, John Wilkes Booth died thinking he was acting in revolution the same as the nation did in the 1770's. We fancify and simplify evil because it's more palatable.

[molly1216]

aside from what we have been batting about..supernatural horror v nazis
it seems that entire war period should have been ideal settings for supernatural horror of all stripes.
trying to think of examples besides these
Raiders of the Lost ark
Below

hmm found something called Horrors of War that looks interesting Hitler makes zombies.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0439615/

a little investigation has given me the heads up about some cross over films projects on the boards

Stephen Norrington has been tapped by Legendary Pictures to write and direct The Lost Patrol, "a supernatural action thriller set against the backdrop of World War II."

Neil Marshall has a World War 2 alien invasion story on his desk.

Principal photography has begun in Wellington, New Zealand on World War II Horror pic, THE DEVIL’S ROCK.
Written by Paul Finch, Paul Campion and Brett Ihaka, The Devil’s Rock is award-winning short film director Paul Campion’s debut feature film. His short films Night of the Hell Hamsters and Eel Girl have screened at every major genre film festival worldwide.

[J.M. Vargas]

^^^ You should check the third season of "True Blood." It touches briefly (in kind-of-brilliant flashbacks) on the supernatural vs. Nazis stuff you've been talking about, although it's not the centerpiece of the story.

[molly1216]

^^^ You should check the third season of "True Blood." It touches briefly (in kind-of-brilliant flashbacks) on the supernatural vs. Nazis stuff you've been talking about, although it's not the centerpiece of the story.

im rewatching 1 and 2 so i have that to look forward to!

[Kenneth Morgan]

I'm not sure if it's included in the DVD sets, but you might want to look for "The Devil is Not Mocked", a segment from "Night Gallery". I haven't read the short story it's based on , but the segment is OK, though the final pay-off isn't much of a mystery.

Another possibility is a segment from the "Twilight Zone" revival from the 1980's. I don't remember the title, but it's about a Soviet officer who investigates some mysterious doings in a remote Russian village and finds...well, I won't spoil it. I'll see if I can find out more information.

Another variation would probably be the episode "The Zombie" from the old "Kolchak: The Night Stalker" series. It's one of the better episodes, with a very tense finish.